I was forced out by money and the ethnic vote
"I'm profoundly convinced that this francophone nation in North America will one day choose liberty. I wish them courage." -- André Boisclair, on resigning as PQ leader.
You mean it's not a civic nation after all? You have to be a francophone? I'm so disillusioned.
5/08/2007
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You mean that a francophone nation cannot be civic?
But of course an anglophone nation can?
Is the USA not a civic nation?
How do you define "civic" anyway? You mean any country that doesn't define as a hotel is not civic?
Queb Sep: That's nonsense and is apples and oranges. Boisclaire is obviously meaning that anglophones and allophones simply can't be part of the Quebec nation. It's the hidden part of all of you separatists: Quebec is only for the pures laines, not for anyone else. Your attempts to obfuscate the point are typical of separatists.
As a Canadian, I am deeply offended at the suggestion by Boisclair that all Canadians, including those that live in Quebec, do not currently enjoy liberty and freedom.
My Gawd, they even have the freedom to separate if they want. The problem with separatists is that most citizens in Quebec do not want to separate from Canada. Separatists don't seem to understand this.
Queb separatise is right. The official language of Quebec is french, the Parliament of Canada agrees that Quebec is a nation. Hence, Quebec is a francophone nation.
There is no contradiction between a nation having an official language and it being a "civic" nation. The civic/ethnic distinction is unhelpful, and it constitutes Ignatieff's second-least useful contribution to our national conversation. I know Coyne is no fan of Will Kymlicka, but Kymlicka is bang on w/r/t this issue.
There are lots of things to shit on Boisclair and the PQ for... this isn't one of them.
To quibble with "andrew": the Parliament of Canada agreed that the Québécois, constitute a nation, not Québec.
What precisely Québécois means in English is another matter for debate.
saphorr: Fair enough, but the point still stands: There is no contradiction between a polity (call it what you want) having an official language and it being a civic polity. Canada is a bilingual polity, Ontario an anglophone polity, Quebec a francophone polity.
I fail to see what points are being scored here.
PS. I'm the andrew in the previous comment; this software acts up.
When I heard Boisclair issue his statement, I was wondering just when he became Governor of Louisiana.
The greatest 'threat' to the Francophone 'nation' in North America isn't Anglo-imperialsism or ethnic melting but simple old age. The demographics prove this. So long as Quebecois (whatever that means) insist on having fewer and fewer children the whole issue will simply wither away.
As far as Boisclaire comments go. Who cares? The man was a looser from the get go. Like his predeceesors he covers what is essentialy a racist impulse with flowery language about Liberty but can't understand the simple idea that separatism's time has come and gone.
Good riddance.
Was this really unexpected? Boisclair was dead man walking the night of the election. If he was smart, he would've announced his resignation on election night or shortly thereafter. Would've saved him a lot of grief.
andrew potter: Might be a good idea to check with the (not sure of the exact number) million? franco-ontarians as to whether that is the case... It's also pretty convenient for the separatists to ignore the francophones outside of Quebec, but those in the ROC should not.
Anonymous - the number of franco-ontarians is approx 540K, or 5% of the pop of Ontario(source http://www.ofa.gov.on.ca/english/stats/infostats1.html).
I don't think there is any debate about the meaning of 'Quebecois'. It is the 19th c. definition of 'nation', which referred to the people, not to a geographic territory. The motion passed in the House was to recognize the people of Quebec having a collective identity within a united Canada. Period. This reference to the people was civic; it did not divide the Quebec population into linguistic enclaves - as did Boisclair.
Boisclair is insulting all Canadians to suggest that the Quebecois do not have liberty. He is insulting Quebecers to suggest that they have currently actually chosen to reject liberty.
A major problem with the separatistes is that they ignore that most Quebecers don't want to leave the federation. Note the low PQ and Bloc ratios. They ignore the economic and legal reasons for this rejection.
Second, they define people, not as members of a civic nation but within linguistic communities. They constantly refer to 'anglophones' and 'francophones' rejecting that language has a communicative and most certainly not a political function.
The problem with separatists is that most citizens in Quebec do not want to separate from Canada. Separatists don't seem to understand this.
Nor do ottawa politicians when it comes to immigration, the death penalty,...
Is France a civic nation?
Alex: Yes it is.
But civic nationalism doesn't mean there is no need for a common public language. That what we mean when we say that Quebec ought to be a francophone nation.
LIBERTY??? I find it very hard to accept that Quebecers would have additional liberty if the government of their soverign state was made up of the PQ Nanny State loving cabal, which it naturally would have to be, considering none of the other parties are agitating for seperation. You want liberty? Then Canada is perfect for you, the constant paralysis caused by our dysfunctional federation is quite effective in ensuring no government can ram stupid legislation down anyones throat.
So Que is a French speaking society where non-Francophone’s can still participate, enjoy rights and feel part of the community. Sounds nice. But if states don't have to mirror ethic nations (hardly possible in Quebec unless Montreal is excluded from the new country that the PQ would make), then what's wrong with the civic society of Quebec being part of the larger civic society of Canada? The PQ has had walk the fine line between narrow nationalism, which at least has a clear if wrong-headed, ugly justification for itself, and a broad civic view of Quebec that is more attractive to liberal Quebecers….and is also entirely consistent with Canadian bilingualism and multi-culturalism.