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December 5, 2007

Liar exonerates liar

If I didn’t know that the Ethics Committee couldn’t coordinate their way out of a paper bag, I’d swear the fix was in. The committee’s performance on day two of Karlheinz Schreiber’s appearance before it was an embarrassment -- even worse, if possible, than the first day....

When they weren’t fawning over him (“You'll be sleeping in your own bed hopefully tonight.”) they were interrupting him, or each other, or the translators were interrupting them both. Schreiber’s rambling answers were as incomprehensible as always, a product perhaps as much of a disordered mind as of his fractured English. But the committee only made matters worse. Most of the questions they should have asked they didn’t. Most of the questions they did ask were rubbish. Where members managed a coherent question, they generally went unanswered, and on those few occasions when he began to give an answer, they would abruptly shift to another question, or indeed another questioner.

So we never got an explanation of what Mulroney did for the money, or why Schreiber paid him in cash, or why he continued to pay him if, as he maintains, Mulroney did nothing for it. In the same way, we are no closer to understanding what Schreiber did for the $20 million he was paid in secret Airbus commissions, or what he did with it, or why it was such a big secret that both sides denied the existence of such an arrangement for years.

No one asked him why the commissions were funnelled through such a complex array of shell companies and coded bank accounts, or why he did not declare them as income, or why, when it came time to pay Frank Moores, he used a phony invoicing system to cover his tracks.

Even at that, Schreiber managed to paint a deeply disturbing picture of how business was done in Mulroney’s Ottawa. At least, it was disturbing to me. For his part, the elfin arms dealer seemed entirely at ease with the notion of money buying influence and influence buying money -- many of his “defences” or “denials” amounted to saying, yes, I did it, so what?

So we were treated to a jolly scene of Frank Moores setting up shop as a lobbyist shortly after helping Mulroney ascend to power, in the expectation that he and his friends would now reap their rewards -- and that Mulroney would be rewarded in his turn:

Mr. Moores then explained to me that all these people are around, of course, they look for their own interests as well. One wants to become a minister; the other one wants to go become a member of his staff at the PMO, like Michel Cogger, or others become ministers like Coates, or whatever. Because I asked him about his job, he has incorporated, or will incorporate a company with the name Altanova, which is a lobbying company. He explained to me, “You can imagine when that company is in place and we have all our friends there, really they can help do business, create jobs, do business and make money.”

Yes, made sense to me. I said, “Well, and how is this going to work?” He said, “We'll do this and I am convinced this will go fine.” I said to him, “What is Mr. Mulroney's position in this?”

“Well,” he said, “when he is not Prime Minister anymore, he will join us later on, because he has to live on something anyhow.”

The whole disgraceful episode in which Schreiber and Franz Josef Strauss, then the premier of Bavaria and chairman of Airbus Industrie, bankrolled the take-down of Joe Clark at the 1983 convention is dismissed as “the Joe Clark thing.” The explanation? “Money was needed, and that great surprise... what airport the delegates from Montreal to Winnipeg. Got a lot of laughs on that.” Ha, ha, yes: foreign money, and foreign interests, fixing a Canadian party leadership contest. What a riot.

So Mulroney had ample reason to be grateful, if not beholden to Schreiber from the start. As did Moores, whose involvement as a lobbyist for Airbus -- something both he and Mulroney had always hotly denied -- Schreiber confirmed with an exchange of letters between Moores and Strauss. And while Moores was setting up GCI to cash in on his ties with Mulroney, Schreiber was signing up German heavy industry left, right and centre -- Airbus, Thyssen, MBB -- based on … what? These are big companies. They have their own sales forces. What service did Schreiber have to offer them?

Ralph Goodale made a stab at it. “Did Airbus authorize any payments to be made to facilitate the contract?” he asked. “If so, to whom were those payments to be made, when were they made, how much were they and were these amounts deductible as expenses on the Airbus side?”

That’s actually five questions, which is part of the problem. You will see from the transcript that Schreiber does not in fact answer any of them:

It is quite different, sir. It is not money you spend or do with money based on the success, it was the commission. Do you understand? No business, no commission. In other words, the official agreement which was made with Airbus through a company, IAL, which is the trust company in Liechtenstein, which, by the way, doesn't belong to me, this is another one and it is not even necessary, because you could have been there and be the trustee for Airbus, or GCI.

Now, when the success is there and you get your commission on the business, and this was stated, by the way, from the RCMP at the beginning as well, GCI, if they want to get paid in Switzerland, it's not illegal. As long as they declare the tax in Canada whenever they take money out or whatever the tax was, it's the end of the story, they can decide whatever they want—and that was my job.

When you speak about these helpful donations, which was a very, very big world in all these years, it was always a discussion from the industry and the government, “Look, there are other many countries, they do this all over the place”. That's true, it's absolutely true. I mean, I witnessed this everywhere. You have to get the possibility to deduct these, no?

No explanation of who, when, or how much, still less whether they were deductible. Just that it’s not illegal and everybody does it. Oh and that whopper about IAL not belonging to him.

Goodale, thoroughly buffaloed, hurried on: “I may well want to return to that later on, particularly after I've had the opportunity to read some of the paper that you've filed today.” Another seemingly straightforward question. “You made an arrangement with Prime Minister Mulroney on June 23, 1993, at Harrington Lake, to provide him with $500,000. Is that correct?”

No. “We did not speak about money.” It was all just an agreement in principle that Mulroney would do... what?

It was more or less all based on what he told me is his belief, that Kim Campbell is going to win the election and have another majority government and he would be in a comfortable position, eh? Easy to understand. How it is today, right? Very simple.

A comfortable position: just as Moores had traded on his connections with Mulroney, Mulroney would trade on his connections with Campbell. All perfectly normal in Schreiber’s view. And, indeed, in much of the reaction to his testimony. It was just a “failed business deal,” Tory MP Russ Hiebert told reporters afterward. A failed business deal between a lobbyist and a former prime minister, the latter promising to use his influence in the government he has just left to procure benefits for the former, and the whole thing transacted in cash. Very simple.

Alas, whatever services Mulroney could perform died with the Campbell government.

This project is not there because Kim Campbell did not get a majority government and he could do nothing. I mean, you will agree with me that he could not have gone to Mr. Chrétien and say now give Thyssen the project, right?

No indeed. In the same way, Mulroney couldn’t have had anything to do with the Airbus deal, Schreiber explained, because Air Canada was “a Liberal property.” I mean, the very idea. “If Mulroney would have just shown up five miles away from Air Canada they would have done the opposite from everything he wanted.”

Except that Mulroney replaced the entire Air Canada board with Conservative partisans. Five days after Schreiber signed his secret deal with Airbus. The one that stipulated that it became void in the event of “major political change” in Canada. No one pointed this out.

And one of those board members? Frank Moores. The Mulroney fundraiser. The lobbyist for Airbus. New Democrat Pat Martin asked about this, eliciting this answer:

I think that the appointment to Air Canada was somehow a signal to the Europeans that Frank Moores was the right guy. Mr. Mulroney supported all the business from GCI, as far as I can see.

No followup.

The GCI boys having collected the “Europeans’” money with the “support” of Mulroney, they set about dividing the spoils. Except it seems they had a falling out:

There was always a fight between the Doucets and Frank Moores and Gary Ouellet. But, you see, they were shareholders. The money which came to Switzerland, to the account, belonged to the shareholders of GCI. So now, Fred Doucet always wanted to know from me whether the figures he received from Frank Moores were correct because this affected the money that came there. I did not want to be involved in this so I said “Leave me alone. You speak to Moores. I cannot go into your internal business.” And then he said “I want you to make sure that from this account money will be transferred to a law firm in Geneva --”

Yes? Yes? The law firm in Geneva? The one Schreiber referred to in his Nov. 7 affidavit, perhaps? But by then the questioner, Carole Lavellee of the Bloc, had lost the plot:

Mme Carole Lavallée (interrupting): Je veux simplement savoir d'où provenait l'argent qui était dans le compte Britan? 
 The Chair: Last question.

And the moment was lost.

I don’t want to say there were no useful questions, no revealing answers. From Thomas Mulcair’s interrogation, for example, we learned that the RCMP did not question Schreiber in the course of its “investigation” (as John Crosbie did not before them with his), and that Schreiber did not give any money to any political figures -- other than Mulroney, Moores, Doucet, Marc Lalonde, Jean Charest’s brother, etc. -- in Canada.

But never any money to Mulroney, or not while he was prime minister. And not for any service he performed in the office. To Tory partisans, that’s all that matters. The same crowd who were baying for Schreiber to be put on the next plane not two days ago, insisting he was a con man, a liar and a thief who was not to be trusted, now trumpet his testimony as having exonerated Mulroney. (Aside from the extended rant about what a "liar" he is, that is.)

And, the committee having failed to turn up any evidence -- after precisely one witness -- of criminal wrongdoing on the former prime minister’s part, the same people will now insist that a fullscale public inquiry is no longer necessary. On the contrary, the committee’s flabby interrogation of Schreiber shows exactly why an inquiry is needed. The point is not to convict Mulroney, or to exonerate him. The point is to find out what happened. Or at least to ask.

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29 Comments

Anonymous Stephen:

Lots here. I generally agree we still need an inquiry

1) Because the committee is incompetent

2) Because of 2 there is still a stink in the air, even though nobody is clear as to why

3) Important policy issue.

To that end then I think the inquiry needs to 2 mandates. The first is narrow, lets clean this issue once and for all and answer the specifics around these commissions etc. Who got what and why.

The broad mandate, and given that Stephen Harper is not a wealthy man he would probably want some clarification on this as well, is how have and should all players of influence exit theior jobs. I think this means looking at all jobs and positions that PM's ex cabinet ministers and senior bureaucrats go to. I think you need to talk to them ALL and clarify best practice and bad practice.

This would include, Senators, GG's. LG's, Cab Mins, PM's, Senior Bureacrats, Parliamentary Secretaries.....every single one who has left need to be asked when they arranged their new jobs and how. If you are going to do it, do it right.

AS a snarky aside, perhaps they should also look at journalists who get appointed to positions within government or parties. When did they know they were going to get a paid gig and what reports did they do in the meantime.

It is one big cesspool that requires a broad look....but my hope for all of it is low.

Defence of Mulroney, I agree with you, it isnt about conviction or exxoneration...ask the questions, but it seems so many have been asked before.

AC, I posted some of your comlumns from 4 and 10 years ago....your tone and opinion seems to have shifted...you are more strident now...is it just frustration that these questions NEVER seem to be answered?

12/05/2007  
Blogger AC:

That, and the fact that no one seems to want to ask them. Everyone's too busy playing the bored sophisticate. It's an "old story," and all that.

Yes, it is an old story. That's the story.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Derek:

I think part of the problem with the Ethics Committee is what I might call scope creep.

The Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics current hearing is called Study of the Mulroney Airbus Settlement.

I take this to mean the circumstances surrounding the alleged libel and the payment of the $2.1 million settlement. So far, nothing reviewed in Committee has directly dealt with this issue. If anything, KHS's evidence (or lack thereof) supports the $2.1 million settlement.

So, while the circumstances surrounding the 1983 Winnipeg convention, or the setting up of the GCI lobbying firm etc. are interesting, and may be worth pursuing in a formal inquiry, are they relevant to this Committee's mandate? ie was the $2.1 million settlement the correct decision and was it in the public interest at the time? I haven't seen any questioning or relevant evidence yet leading to an answer of the Committee's mandate.

Accordingly many of the issues identified seem to be outside the Committee's scope as well. Perhaps in an inquiry - but not for this Committee to explore. They should stick to the 1994/1995 period.

12/05/2007  
Blogger Ben:

Fascinating. Something like "An Ideal Husband", with Mulroney as Sir Robert Chiltern, Schrieber as Mrs. Cheveley, and Strauss as Baron Arnheim.

I always wondered what would happen to Chiltern ten years on -- I never believed that a person could get off scot-free like that.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Derek:

For the sake of argument, allow me to play Devil's Advocate.

We know that Airbus was sucessful in selling planes to Wardair around the time of Airbus. And according to the wiki entry on Frank Moores, GCI was also involved in this sale:

He served as an adviser to Mulroney while he was Prime Minister of Canada, and was appointed to the Board of Air Canada, then a Crown Corporation. At the time, he was also working for Government Consultants International (GCI), a powerful Ottawa-based international lobbying firm, which had as clients at the time the airline firms Wardair and Nordair, which were competitors of Air Canada. Over accusations of conflict of interest, GCI then gave up Wardair and Nordair as clients. He resigned his Air Canada directorship shortly after GCI took on the Airbus file

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Moores

Say we had the same arrangement with Wardair - Airbus claiming no commissions, while at the same time secretly paying success fees to KHS/GCI.

Wouldn't this simply be a breach of contract, subject to civil action by Wardair to recover the funds from Airbus? And it might generate interest from the Commercial Crimes section of the RCMP, CCRA etc. Say there were allegations of kickbacks to the board members or the executive of the company. I can't imagine under any circumstances where people would be clamoring for a public inquiry.

So, why is it different wrt AirCanada? Shouldn't it follow the same processes as the hypothetical Wardair case?

Can a public inquiry even look into the activities/books of non government companies to the same depth as the RCMP or CCRA?

If the answer is no, can a public inquiry properly look into GCI's relationship with Airbus?

12/05/2007  
Blogger Brian Grenya:

Andrew said "To Tory partisans, that’s all that matters. The same crowd who were baying for Schreiber to be put on the next plane not two days ago, insisting he was a con man, a liar and a thief who was not to be trusted, now trumpet his testimony as having exonerated Mulroney. (Aside from the extended rant about what a "liar" he is, that is.)"

Quite the contrary Andrew. I find it amazingly convenient, however, that you are perfectly willing to go along with Schreiber's story when it fits your version of events (i.e. Mulroney is guilty of something) but suddenly he's a liar liar pants on fire when he exonerates Mulroney.

You'll recall that every single time I've asked you to consider the possibility that Mulroney was not linked to Airbus - I was trumpeting Schreiber's own testimony.

After his testimony last week, Schreiber said the money did not come from the Airbus account. I held this up as an example and you quickly batted it down: "he didn't say that per se, it's complex accounting, you aren't informed on the particulars of the case, btw you are an insufferable troll, yadda yadda"

Well Andrew. That's exactly what Schreiber said yesterday: Mulroney never recieved a penny from Airbus kickbacks and never had any influence on the transaction. His dubious character aside, what incentive would Schreiber have to exonerate Mulroney? None. In fact he has every reason in the world to do the opposite.

Stevie Cameron and the Fifth Estate's "Mulroney-Took-Bribes-Club" is now defunct, Andrew. It's about time that you cancel your membership.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Anonymous:

"The point is to find out what happened."

No it isn't. Do you remember Gomery? Did the Inquiry result in any prosecutions? Any busted cabal members of Lib higher ups going away for 25 years to life on Riker's Island pounding rocks and license plates on a chain gang?

Of course not.

Here's an irony for you that will give a hint as to how little things have changed in this country in the past 40 or 50 years:

The US superlawyer who nailed Alan Eagleson -- Paul Kelly -- is now head of the NHL Player's Association. Alan Eagleson's OLD job.

Take a stroll through his record as a criminal lawyer and see how he busted up mobsters, drug dealers and other "influence" pedlars and then ask yourself why Canadians continue to delude themselves about this charade called an "Inquiry".

Eagleson was able to evade prosecution in Canada for so many years for the same reasons that all these other lovable losers and gregarious gasbags did -- we aren't serious about prosecuting crime.

I propose naming this scandal Schreiber-Kelly in honor of the only real prosecution of corrupt dealings in Canada that ever happened. And it happened in the US. But, of course, in true Canadian fashion, Eagleson didn't get 2.3 million years in a US Federal Penitentiary. He got extradited to Canada and escaped the hammer of US courts.

The first time is tragedy, the second time is farce.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Stephen:

Listen to the interview with Lynden McIntyre to get some sense of where the 5th estate is now vs before.

He is interested in other things but comes as close as you can get to saying Airbus and Mulroney are nothing. He is more interested in other things related to the story.

http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2007/200712/20071205.html

As I read it then, the 2.1 million settlement, which was for leaking a letter that libelled Mr Mulroney over Airbus is still valid.

WHat AC is gettng at, I think, is that there are all these other questions around the 10,000,000 or 20,000,000 in commissions. Where did they go and to whom did they go to?

Frank Moors is the fulcrum here it seems. But if Derek's wiki reference is correct then he resigned from the board. SO nothing there. But were people greased is the question. Perhaps not in advance, since it is unlikely Moors had the capital to prepay grease dollars.

KHS is clear, money only came upon success....was the grease paid on success....and where...he hinted it may have been paid in switzerland.

Now John Crosbie's comment today, that Thomas Niles, US Amabassador at the time, complained about grease from Airbus since he was trying to help Boeing.

Nobody from Boeing has spoken, just as noone from GM has spoken about the LAV's...in that case GM won, but they would have been facing the same group, CGI, Schreiber etc.

How did GM beat Thyssen.

AC...might be helpful to get this all laid out in a graph in Macleans...I think you have some influence there now :->, assuming it makes it past the lawyers.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Anonymous:

Watching a parliamentary committee investigate someone is like a cross between a Monty Python sketch and My Cousin Vinny.

Question from the moderator:

"Did you say yoot?"

And, no, I can't take any of this call for an inquiry seriously. It satisfies Canadian's insatiable desire for meaningless constitutional talks -- all legal harangue, with no prosecutorial punch.

These proceedings do make you yearn for the clarity of Mulroney and Schreiber duking it out at the Molson Centre wearing skates and helmets.

2 minutes in the penalty box for lookin' so good, boys.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Anonymous:

Jesus AC, the length of this post and the bombast is proof that you are Canadian, you are ragging the proverbial puck. You look horrible on this, don't let it transform you into a pathetic pariah ala Stevie Cameron, a little mea culpa would go a long way.

12/05/2007  
Blogger FDuquette:

It would be useful to know what exactly KHS is being charged with in Germany and on what evidence the indictment was drawn.
The inquiry should invite the German police to provide details of their investigation and conclusions to better understand KHS and to finally respect their extradition request. They could also speculate on a Mulroney connection in terms of KHS's approach of other government figures.

12/05/2007  
Blogger Brian Grenya:

Andrew:

To be fair to you, I understand and appreciate that you are approaching this from an honest position. I agree that we have a public interest in protecting our institutions from abuse of power and the influence of money.

Only problem is, this whole circus doesn't even pretend to try and achieve that. Its about Mulroney, Airbus and the $300,000. Assuming Schreiber's story in front of an inquiry is the same as he told the committee yesterday, Mulroney is completely exonerated. Do you think Don Newman, Peter Mansbridge, the Star, the Globe or the Post give a flying youknowwhat about whether Frank Moores is dirty lobbyist? Nope - they care about Mulroney.

I'd be more apt to agree with you if the inquiry was broadly focussed on the PMO. That way, we can look at the Mulroney years along with Shawinigate and the Francois Beaudoin/BDC scandal and sponsorship under Chretien, Canada Steamship Lines and Earnscliffe under Paul Martin and anything we can dig up on Harper. Call it the Mother of All Inquiries.

Either you want to protect our institutions or you want to narrowly focus on Mulroney. It can't be both.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Anonymous:

The motives of the Conservatives are pretty simple: as former Reformers, they have no great appetite for defending Mulroney. However, it's patently obvious that the opposition parties are trying to use the sins of the Mulroney government to find something to stick to the current government. The Conservatives want to avoid the mud, but probably would be quite happy to see Mulroney hung by his thumbs in front of the committee otherwise.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Anonymous:

For lawyers it takes years to learn -- not master -- just learn the art of examining a witness. Years ago on law school the late Irving Younger's Ten Commandments of Cross-examination were pounded into our brains in the hopes that one day as effective litigators we could conduct a perfect cross-examination.

His 10 commandments were:

1. Be brief;
2. Use plain words;
3. Use only leading questions;
4. Be prepared;
5. Listen;
6. Do not quarrel;
7. Avoid repetition;
8. Disallow witness explanation;
9. Limit questioning; and
10. Save the ultimate point for summation.

It takes a professional lifetime for a skilled lawyer to fully appreciate these commandments. The MPs on this committee broke every one of these rules and in the process have shown themselves useless for the task at hand.

This committee needs a lawyer and fast. They are missing all sorts of opportunities and it is painful to watch.

Just give me the chance to question Heir Schreiber and he wouldn't know what hit him. I wouldn't even break a sweat.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Herb:

Anonymous is exactly right. I've been litigating for over a decade and I still agonize over how to construct a good cross.

One possible problem with the hearing format (and I may be wrong about this; I don't know the committee procedure) is that it actually doesn't allow for decent cross-examination because it doesn't permit proper follow-up by the questioner. A good cross proceeds one short step at a time. It's hard to do that when you know you only have a few questions and then you have to cede the floor to someone else.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Anonymous:

No one should be allowed to cross examine who hasn't read their Plato thoroughly.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous AP:

Sorry another lawyer here ...

I can't imagine showing up on the day of trial and having boxes of documents handed to me pertaining to the main witness and then proceeding with my cross-examination of him. It just boggles my mind.

To make matters worse the committee gave themselves one day to "prepare" for further examination. One day!?

I have asked for longer adjournments after having received a couple of pages worth of late entries in a police officer's notebook while defending a client on charges of simple assault.

I dare say that if I had proceeded with my examination of a witness under yesterday's circumstances my competence would have been called into question and there most certainly would have been a complaint to my provincial law society.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Gord Tulk:

Alas, this is truly going to reveal itself as a case of 'Dead men tell no tales'...

Frank Moores, since even before the very start of his political career when he was involved in his family's business interests, was rumoured to be corrupt and a philanderer. Some said that he was paid to run for the premiership of NL. And the rumours about what went on post premiership in the VIP fishing lodges in Labrador that he entertained executives in were especially piquant.

His actions had a mentoring influence over many in the PC Party - he showed them how things were done and got done. It came as no surprise to many when all of this broke years ago that Frankie was right in the middle of it.

And AC is right to be disgusted by the abbott and costello act that is this committee.

But for those who think all of this falls on the PC side of the political ledger, I would remind them that in one of the very first interviews that BM gave in the years after his exit from politics he said that if people thought that his gov't was corrupt it had nothing - nothing - on how corrupt the then Chretien gov't was. And I for one think he is dead accurate on that and I also believe that many in the (new) conservative intend to look under every rock and into every nook of the Chretien gov't's shady dealings in detail when a majority mandate is achieved.

This current committee grandstanding now almost guarantees both the mandate and the investigation will occur. (and I think it is precisely the motivation for BM's rash rquest for a full enquiry (sp?).

12/05/2007  
Blogger Sean:

http://www.macleans.ca/article.jsp?content=20071205_112340_5592

AC, your takedown of the HRC is great! Stephen Harper, let's see some action.

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Derek:

My Coles notes version of the Committee hearings to date for those that didn't get a chance to watch them.

The allegation:

"Ya gotta dance with the ones that brung ya"

The evidence so far:

"I don't know. A proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven."

12/05/2007  
Anonymous Marty:

hmmm, remember once being a passionate partisan, and campaigning for the Conservatives in the 88 election, believing the hype about an election of ideas.

hmmm, remember the 90's, doing a small business startup, no help if you weren't politically connected federally.

Is it any wonder, with a family to raise, bills to pay, onerous taxes to remit, that the citizenry views its politicians with cynicism and despair? a pox on all their houses.

Are there still people in government who do it for the right ideals, or are elections just a contest over whose side gets to loot and plunder?

12/06/2007  
Blogger Brian Grenya:

I understand and often share your cynicism Marty. With all due respect to both Harper and Dion though - I think they represent a new ethical and principled standard. For instance, Harper who is by no means a rich man, has refused to be apart of the MP pension plan - despite the financial security it would have otherwise brought his family.

He has no business interests and owes nothing to corporate canada. Same goes for Dion.

12/06/2007  
Anonymous Stephen:

Well, interesting charges this morning. Not to run around but as indicated by others that the Airbus thing is a red herring, that was already known.

Schreiber's documents appear to ndicate that GCI paid BMXPM....that would be news. Question is when, and for what and why?

SO the first question is to establish whether there were payments.

If you take KHS as a guide, bear with me because I have tons of doubts.

1) KHS says he was trustee of the money and that it was GCI that paid the money out

2) He made this odd statement that the money could be paid out in Switzeraland, and if the taxe treaties were followed, declare income etc, that would be legal. Implication some people were paid in Switzerland

3) He repeated that this was between Airbus and GCI

Frustrating as he is, this seems to be what KHS is hinting at. Once again whether anything was untoward in those payments, they look bad but so was the $300,000 which nobody can pin down to anything.

At one level, so what if GCI paid BMXPM. The question becomes

1) Did they
2) When
3) For what services (retainers are acceptable)
4) When was the agreement struck, and is it written
5) Finally and least important, did BMXPM decalre the income appropriately.
6) Maybe most importabtly, Who else did GCI pay over time, when, what for and why?

Once again, lets not judge this before info is out, but lets get the questions answered and not run over silly distractions.

As for KHS, I still think he needs to be given a hard headed choice. Speak and co-operate and you can stay here. But before you do you hav to tell us everything, if there is nothing bad, back you go to Germany, and if you lied, back you go to Germany.

And BTW, this cannot ultimately be done under the Cromwellian Protectorate artifact of the Speakers Warrant. Witnesses and potential accused have rights and as such this needs to be moved to a more appropriate venue of a formal jusicial inquiry or criminal proceeding.

Can you imagine Pat Martin having access to Brian Mulroney under a Speakers Warrant.....mind you if that was quid pro quo for getting Chretien and Martin under a speakers warrant then maybe I could swallow my libertarian disgust at this ugly instrument.

12/06/2007  
Blogger FDuquette:

A parliamentary ethics committee is not quite a court room; though the members may not be so crafty at cross-examination, that committee has far more latitude in how it deals with witnesses. They want Schrieber to talk; Schreiber wants to talk; put an aggressive cross on him, and he'll clam up or his memory will fade. KHS is no fool.

The problem with the dialectical method is that it is obvious; great in a court room where the witness is cornered and vulnerable; however, these public hearings are a bit more airy. So to lull KHS into gabbing would require Dale Carengie moreso than Socrates.

12/06/2007  
Anonymous Stephen:

My concerns over the ethics committee is that ultimately you end up in legal territory...whether formally or not you are "trying" someone.

My concerns are all about ensuring people have rights and a fair process. You know the stuff we like to believe we ave in this country. I find the Speakers Warrant to be an at best, hold you nose and use it instrument.

Its history goes back to Cromwell and the Protectorate. It is important and needs to be there, just like the federal government's reserve power. But be careful and limit its use.

The irony is once the committee starts to find out enough stuff they should shut down and let the proper legal authorities do their job. Assuming of cvourse that ther is somethign to be done.

My previous note indicates where it sounds like the issue lay. GCI payments to BMXPM...if you can verify those, when and why you might have something.

But this is one enormous fishing expedition, that normally wouldnt last a minute in a regular court.

As I said, I could get over my distatse for this if it got used in the case of Adscam, and the golf course deal.

Throw em in jail till they talk and if they look at you sideways you keep em in jail under a contempt of parliament charge.

But this isnt Cromwell's Protectorate

12/06/2007  
Anonymous Gord Tulk:

Surely KHS has been asked his line of questioning under oath some time in the past hasn't he?

If not, why not?

Did we as taxpayers get any kind of due diligence service from the RCMP prior to BM's lawsuit?

12/06/2007  
Anonymous ebt:

All you "lawyers" out there: he's not on trial. He's not a witness in a court case. He's not being cross-examined. He's not even being examined as that term is normally used. He's giving evidence to a Parliamentary committee.

If you really have to trot out your American textbooks, try the ones that tell a DA how to treat witnesses at a grand jury. That is at least formally relevant. This other nonsense you people are spouting is just embarassing.

And yes, these MPs are being ludicrously stupid. But I don't think someone who doesn't understand what's going on would do any better.

12/06/2007  
Anonymous Derek:

I understand Paul Szabo's previous life was as an accountant. Maybe he or someone on the Committee should recommend hiring a forensic auditor to "follow the money".

It appears KHS is more than willing to meet with anyone and put forward his case. He appears to me to be cooperative. So, outside of Committee time, and in the interim while other witnesses appear, it would seem like a prudent expenditure. Much work has no doubt already been done by the various journalists who have been following this story for many years, with varying degrees of co-operation from Schreiber. And apparently there has been related work done in a parliamentary inquiry in Germany. So, why not retain someone to look into it, and testify after he completes his work? Maybe he could appear at the same time with the recalling of Schreiber.

During Bingogate in BC while Mike Harcourt was premier, they hired such a person, who reported back his findings, which led to changes/charges.

I think this Committee should take the same approach, if they have the resources and capability of undertaking such an activity - otherwise it would have to wait until any inquiry.

Having Joe Cromartin spend valuable question time confused over when KHS made his first $100k payment (JC thought it was at Harrington Lake) for example could be avoided.

12/06/2007  
Anonymous Stephen:

Globe editorial today defending the committee. Essentially saying they are help setting the terms of reference.

Stikes me more as making a virtue of necessity.

Thank goodness Harper got term setting away from his office....of course he sets the terms but I am assuming that Dr Johnstones reference document will be made public and any deviation from it becomes difficult to justify.

Derek you are referencing a special prosecutor. Yes, that likely would have been the right answer, as the legislation is in place. Nothing says that Dr Johnstone couldnt come back and say inquiry is not the proper mechanism it is the special prosecutor.

The opposition wants a general search going back 30 years....seems ridiculous to me, except as a historical curiousity. Yes the issues of foreign money influence are important, the question is are they relevant to today. If they arent and current legislation and oversight covers it arent we really doing what historians do.

To take the argument to extremes, should we open an inquiry over Skyshops, some of the people are still alive I believe, it was never cleared up, or the contribuotrs to the PM's pool The answer would be no since it is no longer germaine to our discussions.

This isnt to say time makes it go away, although practically it does. IS the environment that those things took place in relevant to today.

As for prosecution of the crime, well if there was a crime, and you have reasonable evidence of a crime, and the statute of limitations doesnt apply, then go ahead.

What is relevant?

Did Mr Mulroney get money as a reward for his time in office, and did he have a reasoanble expectation that making certain decisions would reward him.

Secondly, if not Mr Mulroney, was anyone else, cvil servant or paarliamnetarian, rewarded on the three potential contracts for Airbus, the coastcard copters or the Light Armoured Vehicle project or promised a commission if these projects were successful.

ISnt that what we are interested in and only that. Everything else, from Peter Mackay's employement when he was 22 to whether taxes were paid or how much money is in KHS's suitcase an undercard and a distraction from the main issues? It is all very salacious but is it relevant?

Focus the questions, choose the vehicle to get them answered and be done with it....once again, not about exoneration or guilt but answering the relevant questions.

The one issue it does raise, as I have said, is how post employment practices are setup. If you question Mulroney's you had better look at all others (turners, chretiens 2x, Martin, Clark, Campbell), including cabinet ministers. We might just be expecting something that isnt realistic, fair or we may find out that odious practices are commonplace and we need to change things.

BTW, do we only care about those who are in power or do we care if former leaders call opposition leaders to advise on how certain files should be attacked? Lobbying takes place in 3 places, at least, the government party, the bureacracy and with opposition members, especially in a minority parliament.

I am concerned about a monster inquiry, not because of cost (the wrong reason to oppose it) but because the diffuse nature of it means nothing gets answered.

12/07/2007  

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