April 14, 2007

The real target is the NDP

Madness, or method? There’s one way of looking at the Dion-May “non-compete” agreement that I’m sure you’ll be seeing a lot of: that it’s complete madness. Mr. Dion has already taken the Liberals too far to the left as it is. By tying his party so closely to the Greens, a one-issue party at best, he risks cementing an impression of the Liberals as out of the mainstream, and of himself as a global-warming obsessive...

It’s easy to see what the Greens get out of the deal: a shot at a seat in Parliament, with the Liberals withdrawing in Central Nova in favour of Ms May. (I’m told David Orchard has agreed to work on her campaign team.) But what do the Liberals get out of it? It’s not as if Mr. Dion’s credentials as an environmentalist are in doubt: to the contrary, he’s regarded as sincere to a fault. And the absence of a Green candidate in St.-Laurent-Cartierville is hardly crucial to his chances of retaining the seat.

Indeed, the scheme could well backfire even in Central Nova. If you add the Liberal and Green vote together from the last election, they don’t even come in second, let alone threaten Peter MacKay’s hold on the riding. And a lot of local Liberals will be put out to find themselves without a candidate. They may stay home, vote NDP, even vote Conservative.

That’s what you’ll be reading. Indeed, that’s what you have been reading, in this column for starters. But what if I’m wrong? (Inconceivable, I know, but just for the sake of argument.) What if there’s a method in all this? What might it be?

It’s pretty clear there’s a larger game being played here than just electing Mr. Dion or Ms May, and larger stakes than just Central Nova. Even at yesterday’s joint press conference, there were hints that similar arrangements might be worked out in other ridings. Which suggests the real target of this operation is not Mr. MacKay. It’s the NDP.

If Ms May were to be elected to Parliament -- to say nothing of toppling Mr. MacKay -- it would give the Greens instant credibility as a political party. This would obviously be very bad news for the NDP, which has already seen some of its support bleed to the Greens. But just the sight of Ms. May and Mr. Dion together is likely to put pressure on Jack Layton: if they’re willing to put partisanship aside “to save the planet,” why aren’t you? You talk a good game on global warming, but if you really believed it, you wouldn’t be splitting the vote.

What we may be witnessing, in other words, is a squeeze play on the NDP (and, to a lesser extent, the Bloc), designed to force them -- or their supporters -- into a stop-Harper coalition built around global warming. Having lost much of his initial advantage on the issue, Mr. Dion is, in the language of gamblers, “doubling down”: even as the Conservatives have turned several shades of green in an effort to neutralize the issue, Mr. Dion is betting even more heavily on it.

Can’t he read? Didn’t he see the advice of A. Columnist that “nobody wins elections on the environment?” Doesn’t he know that the median voter has uncertain, conflicted views on the subject, and is unlikely to base his choice on it? But it may not be the median voter he has in mind. It may be that Mr. Dion’s ambition is not to split off centrist voters from the Tories, but to unite the left -- that he hopes to use global warming, and the white-hot passion it excites among certain sections of the left, as a kind of blast furnace, melting partisan differences into a European-style rassemblement des gauches.

There have been signs of that already: the three parties have been cooperating to a quite unusual degree, not limited to their strident defence of the Kyoto treaty. The NDP, in particular, is clearly feeling the strain. Some prominent New Democrats (Bob Rae, Ujjal Dosanjh) have defected to the Liberals, while others have mused publicly about a merger, or at least some sort of coalition. Mr. Dion may now have decided to force the issue. Indeed, I'd say the chances of a spring election have just increased. If there must be an election, he may have reasoned, it might as well be on my chosen battleground.

It’s a huge risk, as I said off the top: in rounding up the left, he is in danger of losing touch with the centre. But Mr. Dion is nothing if not a risk-taker -- a trait he has in common with Mr. Harper. Say what you will about either man, you can’t say they lack nerve.

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54 Comments

Anonymous:

I don't think this necessarily hurts the NDP. The Greens are a protest party. Their supporters know that there is almost zero chance of any Greens being elected. They vote Green because they don't believe any of the parties have a good enough environmental policy.

If Green voters believe that Dion is 'one of them', they would vote for him with or without May's endorsement. But if they don't buy his green credentials, where do they go? They could still vote Green but many would likely be pissed at seeing May praise Dion and would like to give her a poor showing so they can boot her out after the election. That means they would either stay home or vote NDP.

13/4/07 6:02 PM  
Steve L.:

oooooooooooh. Andrew spends half of this column being a quasi-Dion apologist and - hey look! - ends by saying that Stephen Harper's got nerve, just like Dion!

a mildly disappointing column.

but, i can't say that this column doesn't have a modicum of truth to it. to rule out a Liberal rebound (or a "generic leftist rebound") would be premature. never hurts to be cautious, especially for Conservative strategists.

which is why we need even more DIRTY SLIMY VICIOUS DISGUSTING OBNOXIOUS CAMPAIGN TACTICS! (including but not limited to attack ads)

the other day on CTV Nik Nanos of SES made a good point about attack ads: poorly thought out ones (like the "Chretien face" ad in election 1993) can backfire. so about the DIRTY SLIMY VICIOUS DISGUSTING OBNOXIOUS CAMPAIGN TACTICS (tm) i will just say: the more discrediting the better.

13/4/07 6:03 PM  
Paris Stronach:

Time to jump off the gravy train AC. Even Paul Wells has put his Dion pom-pons down. Let me get this straight, Andrew: Harper is a cold, unprincipled promise breaker (See your "Harper Has Learned Well" article) but Dion is an innovative and tactical political chessmaster?

Disguising your love affair with the man by coyly playing "devil's advocate" isn't fooling anyone. I'm sure you're opinion may be different had you spent the last election pounding liberal signs into the snowbanks in Central Nova.

13/4/07 6:57 PM  
Toby:

Wow, some cranky people read your column. These commenters need to go have a drink.

13/4/07 7:07 PM  
Anonymous:

Steffi, "the risk taker" bwahahaaa...yeh and Belinda "the deep thinker" yeeesh, what crappola.

13/4/07 7:14 PM  
Grithater:

"But Mr. Dion is nothing if not a risk-taker --". It seems people often become risk-takers when they can't get a good nights sleep because their best friend and neighbour is up all hours with his grinder going. Funny that.

13/4/07 7:28 PM  
Anonymous:

I'm trying to decide if Andrew's comment about Orchard working on her campaign team was a joke...

13/4/07 7:29 PM  
KWest:

I have a feeling about the Greens (or other minor parties) and proportional rep...does anyone else share it?

I feel that often votes are parked with these parties by people who know full well that the votes will never amount to anything...fire up a PR system, and these votes dry up.

Witness the number of Green Party votes in the West Island in the recent Quebec election. In several ridings they came in second (a distant second).

My feeling was that these were vaguely left-of-centre anglos who were pissed at Charest, couldn't vote PQ, and didn't want the ADQ...so I'll vote Green. But if it actually turns into seats? Yeah, uh, forget it...

Could PR actually mean that we end up with a consolidated two-party system?

Anyone else wonder about this?

Concerning the topic at hand, any idea of what percentage of the Liberal vote breaks Conservative?

13/4/07 7:30 PM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Hasn't anybody noticed that Jack Layton was the first and loudest (and maybe only) person to object to this 'alliance'? I think AC's bang on. Dion's trying to shore up his Ontario vote with NDPers and his Québec vote with left-leaning Bloquistes.

13/4/07 7:32 PM  
John W:

As usual, the commentators are for the most part are piling on Dion for poor political judgment, abandoning Lib traditions, lack of leadership experience etc.

But in defense of AC's end of column analysis, you had to notice that the NDP brought out Ed Broadbent no less to trash the deal, and the Conservatives seemed to have an army of their toughest out for the late afternoon talk shows including John Baird from Washington. They must know something.

Craig Oliver pointed out that Dion has received the unqualified endorsement of one of the country's most respected environmentalists. Maybe David Suzuki will be next!

Following AC's point on the Liberals going all the way on the environment, what if all the major environmental organizations and leaders in the country united behind the hapless Mr. Dion?

13/4/07 8:09 PM  
Stephen:

Nothing if not a risk taker....as a risk taker he is nothing....

Mark this day, for your grandchildren will ask you what you were doing the day the seam popped on the Liberal party and it all began to unravel.

The left may yet combine, you'll know that is really happening when the blue Liberals start to abandon ship, Manley, Peterson and others.

The target is the NDP I agree....but the Liberals will immolate themsleves in the meantime.

The revolt in the Liberal party is just getting going.

I dont think Andrew is calling Dion a master strategist, I think he is trying to divine what the strategy might be...I mean there must be a pony in this pile somewhere?

13/4/07 8:10 PM  
Stephen:

Oh yes, now that he has officially endorsed her he has thrown his credibility in with May on Potvin.

I look forward to Mr Dion now having to defend May if she doesnt torch Potvin from running....

So mr dion Ms may has backed Mr Potvin, do you agree with her decision since you belive she belongs in Parliament. Do you have common cause against irrepsonsible corporation like the islamists do.....?

What a freaking mess.....and it is ALL of his own making.....where is your famous phrase...

What maroon....

Now taking bets on whether Dion survives the next 90 days.....seriously.

13/4/07 8:20 PM  
Stephen:

Speaking of bright political strategists.....did the minister of complex files know this was coming and jump ship before it smashed into the pier?

Hmmmmm

13/4/07 8:23 PM  
John Murney:

Hi Andrew,
Your comments are close to the mark, I think. The comments I made on my blog about this move in Central Nova closely reflect your comments, with a twist.

13/4/07 8:37 PM  
Werner Patels:

This whole Dion-May backroom deal is the stupidest thing I have seen in a long time. If this won't increase voter apathy, I don't know what will.

May is selling out her party, her party members.

13/4/07 9:41 PM  
FDuquette:

Now that it has become obvious that the Liberals are on the offensive against the NDP, aided by the baby Greens, in a two front it gives rise to a question of strategy: how does one defend, what can the NDP do?
Give ground while looking for vulnerabilities...look at those liberal mp's sticking their necks out for the planet: so awesome is the necksize has anyone determined the size of their collective ecological footprint? How many SUV's does the average liberal mp own? How can the lunatic greens hypocritically support such energy pigs, the ndp is the only true defender of gaia, etc. etc.
The left supports the ndp, liberals, greens amd bloc. Unifying such a vast demographic is a worthy prize.

13/4/07 10:30 PM  
Sean S.:

AC, don't leave that juicy tidbit about Orchard potentially working on May's team in Nova Central hanging...

Last I had heard was Orchard was close to declaring for the Liberals here in Saskatoon-Wanuskewin...I would love to know if he has had second thoughts this past week....

13/4/07 10:47 PM  
AC:

Sean S.,

Quite right. I should clarify: what he told her, now that I check my notes, was that he would help her out if he didn't run himself. So we'll see...

13/4/07 11:25 PM  
janfromthebruce:

FDuquette ponders whether Dion can unify the vast demographic of left support for the liberals, ndp, greens, and the bloc. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it would require one to belief that the liberals are left for instance. Also, it is based on the belief that the Greens are left. Let's see, in May's agonizing and long-winded statement about why she is running in Central Nova, she laments how the "The Progressive Conservative Party was cannibalized by the Alliance Party." She goes on how "The loss of the adjective “progressive” was more than grammatical. The heart was torn out of Canadian politics. The loss of the traditional, principled Progressive Conservative counter-weight to the ethically flexible Liberals has cost this country dearly."
I about bust a gut. Not only is she making herself out as the saviour of the progressive con party but she bashes the liberals in the process, the ones that she is now teaming up with, the ethically flexible ones.
She is one piece of work that Ms. May. No contraduction or contorted position is too much for her, as with every new day, one just needs to stick a sunflower on them to hide the previous day's musings and incoherencies. Spinning at its worse.
Dion, well, all I can say is that the rats are abandoning ship, and a week doesn't go by when another one bites the dust. To shore up the flank he teams up with a flake who in one breath calls him ethically flexible and the other one with utmost integrity. Those two characterizations don't go together, but it does bring to mind words of my mother - birds of a feather flock together.

13/4/07 11:37 PM  
Cecil:

Detailing Mr. Dion's best chance of salvaging his leadership is hardly cheerleading for the man.

Brilliant column, btw, AC, since this is the conclusion that I arrived at myself this afternoon.

Messrs. Rae and Dosinjh's departure was a telling detail that didn't occour to me though.

It's been obvious to me that the arrival of the Greens has been the most significant change in the electoral arithmetic since Reform.

Only this time, the splitting is all over there on the left. The problem is the same: how do you unite it?

Considering how much time it took for the Conservative party to rebuild itself, I'll be surprised if this turns out to be some magic bullet, but hey, you have to start somewhere. And Dion doesn't have the luxury of time.

If those days (and I'm speaking as an Alberta Reformer) taught me one thing, it was how stubborn electoral habits can be. I mean, those Ontario and Atlantic PC's just wouldn't throw in the towel! Nor do I expect long time Dippers to, especially if there's a feeling if they're victim of a gang-up.

It's one thing to flip over to the Liberals or Greens secure in the knowledge that the NDP will be there tomorrow; it'll be another if it's clear that doing so will close that door forever.

13/4/07 11:44 PM  
Luke:

I don't think it will work, but it is an interesting play.

I do agree that there is more going on here than reported. I am also quite sure this was planned months ago, and executed in a careful sequence. Here's my personal, albeit amateur, breakdown.

-May chose a riding in which the Liberals placed a distant third, against a weakened yet high-profile Conservative.
-May started praising Dion around the same time. She did so long enough that she could claim this deal was not in exchange for his endorsement.
-The Liberals had not nominated a candidate in this riding, despite the rush in case of a budget election.
-At the announcement, both stress that May's endorsement is meaningless since she had given it before; as if they'd just reached this agreement that morning.

Dion is quite clever. If this is a plan to squeeze the NDP, he gets to test the water in a riding he wasn't going to win anyway. If that works, he can expand the plan into other ridings. If there's a backlash, he has time for people to forget before the next election.

May is just desperate. She needs a seat, and traditional politics haven't done it. If any party needs to take risks, it's them.

(Sorry for the long post on your forum - I really should start my own blog one of these days.)

13/4/07 11:47 PM  
Luke:

And on a personal note, am I the only one disgusted by this move? It seems that the only political freedom we have left is to vote for the party we choose.

Lobbying the government isn't working. Protests can be ignored. Petitions are dismissed. Even some referendums are rejected. But at every election, we can vote for the party we choose. If enough Canadians generally wanted change, we could have it.

Now, here's Dion and May telling Central Nova this isn't good enough for him. Since they can't seem to elect the people they want, they will limit our choices to try and force it. May blames our 'unfair' democratic system.

Unfair... that's what I'd be screaming if I lived in Central Nova. We'll see if they agree.

13/4/07 11:52 PM  
Anonymous:

I think AC is right on this one. Even Kinsella noted not so long ago that the resurgence of the NDP was one of the biggest threats to his party. In Nova Scotia provincially the NDP has consolidated its position as the official opposition, relegating the Libs to 3rd place, which is another subtext to some of the local Liberal outrage, I'm sure. Third parties only surpass second parties in our system when (i) they are very professionally run political organizations, and (ii) the second party makes a series of mistakes the third party is able to take advantage of. Whether this is one of those mistakes only time will tell, I guess.

14/4/07 12:09 AM  
AC:

Luke (and others):

I don't get the "disgust" part. It is surely up to every party whether it wants to field a candidate or not in any given riding. It's not obliged to do so, just to give the voters more choices.

It's true that the present agreement reduces the number of parties running in each of these ridings by one. I don't recall that being an objection when the Tories and the Alliance were merging, which had the same effect in 308 ridings. Then, it was justified in the name of creating a more effective opposition. In the same way, by strengthening the Greens as a party, the long-run effect of this deal will arguably be to give voters across the country more choices, not fewer.

And while some of us would like to expand the range of political choices still further, by dismantling barriers to entry in the political market -- ie, by reforming the electoral system -- most of the people on this board seem to find the idea abhorrent, on the grounds that there would be too many parties!

14/4/07 12:48 AM  
Gord Tulk:

AC:

1.
Proportional electoral reform is a worse option than First past the post in the opinion of many. Arguing that it would prevent the antics that we saw today is not sufficient to make it look better than our current system.

Ranked ballots would and not result in the 'tower of babble' parliament that Proportional voting almost by definition creates (especially with the vote subsidy).

2. Your musing in the column "there were hints that similar arrangements might be worked out in other ridings" is nonsense. How many ridings in Canada last election had the Greens finish ahead of the LP - two? Three? If Dion was to start shutting down campaigns in ridings where the LP finished second there would be an open revolt in the party. especially if the GP + LP vote would equal a seat.

3. May has no chance to win in Central Nova with or without the LP everyone knows that - including Dion and Rae (you, I'm not so sure judging by this column). She has no chance in any of the other 307 ridings. This is an attempt on her part to save her from the disgrace of finishing third (or fourth).

4. Canadians do not give a rat's rear-end about Global warming beyond making a few inconsequential non-lifestyle-limiting gestures.

What many Canadians DO care about is appearing to be a nation that is not 'pro-environment' and most importantly more pro-environment than a GWB-led United States. These Canadians exhibit the same brittle vanity and vacuous philosophical core as Jean Cretien.

Stephen Harper has sated that insecurity and left the likes of Dion and May looking as out of place on the issue as a Lamborghini Murcielago in a Didsbury Tim Horton's Drive-thru.

5. A Layton-led NDP is doomed electorally, but I suspect that they have pretty-much bottomed in the polls. If someone could get Hackey-sack to focus on the issues that the lower-middle class are interested in - healthcare reform, housing costs, paying for their kids post-secondary education with actual POLICY ideas rather than rhetoric he could turn the tide and bite into the liberals AND the CP support.

Alas he is as likely to learn that trick as a blind cat.

14/4/07 2:07 AM  
fair sailing:

Ummmmm, I know Dion's a perfessor and all, but what happens if he's just plain old dumb? I'm not saying he looks dumb, you know, like that other guy Gareth Turner, but I mean he sure does some dumb things... Yep, that's about it - maybe he's just dumb?

14/4/07 2:13 AM  
Werner Patels:

Luke, if you had actually read the comments here, you'd know that I am also disgusted. So you're not the only one.

14/4/07 3:28 AM  
janfromthebruce:

Actually, AC, I don't see how May-Dion teaming up creates more voter choice. I see it opposite to you, where voters would say why vote Green if they are easily interchangable with red in the rest of the ridings across Canada. I actually see this as a bonus for the NDP.
May has tried to paint herself as above the fray of partisan politics and backroom wheeling and dealing, and well sticking a sunflower on this deal - no matter the spin - smells bad. But that's up to the red green show.
And I want pp desperately.

14/4/07 3:48 AM  
Steve L.:

as a Conservative voter who supports proportional representation, let me tell you one thing, Andrew.

i don't like the PC-Alliance merger any more than David Orchard, although i categorically hate him more than the merger itself, but that should be obvious enough. if the PCs want to leave, go right ahead. no objections from me. if that would eventually cost us the governmental throne, that's fine too. although, being the political animals that they are, the PCs are probably not going to forgo all the swag that comes with a 42% popularity incumbent prime minister any time soon.

in any case, this Dion-May affair is nothing less than a blatant display of single-minded votemongering demagoguery (which might fulfill its intended purpose, don't get me wrong), something that you've frequently taken the Conservatives to task for. and you've made hay about pettier things when it comes to the Conservatives as well... but let's not get into that for now. to see you ask about what the fuss is all about in this instance is just sad.

14/4/07 4:52 AM  
Anonymous:

Betty and Steffi have served-up a big fat juicy one for the NDP and if Layton had half a brain he'd smack this one outta the park.

14/4/07 7:46 AM  
Brent L.:

Would someone please tell Elizabeth May that she's no longer a lobbyist trying to get the ear of politicians but is actually leader of a supposed national party? If she keeps this up she'll steal Dion's "not a leader" moniker. That is the one and only upside I see in this for the Liberals.

There's really not much to say to Stephane Dion. But I will say this, watching Dion doing politics is like watching a child playing in traffic: it's frightening, leaving one with an instinctive urge to grab him by the collar of his shirt and yank him out before he gets ran over.

Sorry AC, trying to fathom the man's political strategy is as productive as reading tea leaves, with due apologies to tea leave readers.

14/4/07 8:56 AM  
Stephen:

The Orchard part is the Shakespearean part of this. This is Orchard nursing the grudge against MacKay, delivering his group of committed followers at the convention and demanding his blood money from Mr Dion to help get back at Mackay.

May would have been better to run against Tony Clement rather than Peter Mackay if the goal was knock off a cabinet minister....this is personal.

Orchard is the unwritten story here, and there is a lot to write about this vaporous figure trying to seep its way into influence and power....tories liberals and now greens.

14/4/07 9:47 AM  
FDuquette:

I recall prognosticating the ndp sqeeze play (but not the recent details) months ago on this site, but none of the comments from awhile back are available anymore. I recall thinking that Ignatiev was the architect of the liberal shift left to destroy the ndp, as his Quebec-nation gambit during the leaders campaign demonstrated audacity and the art of the long view, making him an excellent planner for his leader. Dion therefore is an innovative risk-taker, an admiral quality to possess while the liberals rebuild.
Contrast that with Harper and his cabinet, one does not sense teamwork quite as strongly as in the liberal leadership.

14/4/07 11:52 AM  
youngid:

Anyone else see this as a tacit admission that the Liberals can't and won't compete with the Conservatives for the centrist vote? Seems to me that for every vote they poach from the NDP by moving left, some votes from the centre will swing to Harper.

I'm surprised to see the Libs make this move, since the centre vote kept the party in power for 13 years.

14/4/07 12:39 PM  
Bernie:

I do so like
green eggs and ham!
Thank you!
Thank you,
Deyawn-I-am!

14/4/07 3:40 PM  
Stevo:

I wish I'd watched a single episode of the Red Green Show so that I could of something witty to say alluding to that tv show in regards to the Dion-May pact.

14/4/07 6:06 PM  
Stevo:

I wish I'd watched a single episode of the Red Green Show so that I could of something witty to say alluding to that tv show in regards to the Dion-May pact.

14/4/07 6:06 PM  
Stevo:

correction:

I wish I'd watched a single episode of the Red Green Show so that I could *THINK* of something witty to say alluding to that tv show in regards to the Dion-May pact.

Apparently I'm not doing much of the asterisked word today.

14/4/07 6:22 PM  
Dennis (Second Thoughts):

Dion is sincere when it comes to the environment. What does that mean? If it means that he's lying to himself about his own track-record, I guess I'll say yes. Anything else, then I have no clue.

14/4/07 7:35 PM  
Anonymous:

One thing this stunt does is leave room for Harper to edge left without losing his right. Expect to see some trumped up gap tooth conservative suggesting a new party.

What is this with BC politicians getting everyone in a tizzy out east? No one leaves BC except when they are kicked out. May blew the Green's chance at electoral reform in BC when she came out against it. She didn't get exactly what she wanted, so she got nothing and essentially the greens disappeared. If they had supported the reform, it would probably have passed, and they would have some seats in the BC legislature.

I suspect Dion and May will both regret this stunt. May essentially sells herself for nothing, and Dion for alienating the right in his party.

Derek

14/4/07 8:56 PM  
derrida:

"It may be that Mr. Dion’s ambition is not to split off centrist voters from the Tories, but to unite the left."
This has been a persistent refrain, but could someone please explain to me how the Liberals and the Greens belong in any way to leftist politics? I'd be far more accepting of the idea of uniting an "anti-Conservative" vote, but "uniting the left" is really peculiar given that from my perspective neither the Liberals nor Greens are in any way part of “the left”. The Liberals are at their core the political party of individualism, minimal government, of unfettered capitalism. Remember that the liberal in the Liberals has to do with fiscal policy rather than social policy.The Liberals are "progressive" when they implement CCF or NDP socialist policies. Being to the left of the Conservatives does not “the left” make. Besides these days it really is Liberal/Tory same old story.
The Greens, in North America at least, I see as closer to a Libertarian party with a Green agenda- also in favour of minimal government, or should I say anti-government, socially pretty conservative (May's "regressive" views on abortion and same-sex marriage are now notorious), and pro-capitalism. To me, “the left” even its social democratic incarnation is pro government/centralisation, is progressive and collectivist in the sense that it puts people (especially people on the margins)ahead of sidling up to big business, and is in principle anti-capitalist, even if social democrats are for the time being having to working within the exigencies of capitalism.
Although I believe this Green Red alliance to be purely tactical and strategic, there are actually ideological reasons for the Green and Liberals to come together- but it has NOTHING to do with “left” or “progressive” politics. The NDP remains the only political party for both "progressives" and/or "lefties".

15/4/07 12:53 PM  
Stephen:

Derrida,

There is tension within the Green movement in NA.

It is made up of the old lefties, the granola, hemp and birkenstock crowd. It is also made up of conservatives who believe in more sustainable development, no debt no subsidy types and there is a strain of liberterians, there are also the anti globalists, and anti americans who will stay there till america goes green then they will shift to be pro development under the anti poverty tent.

After reading the Star article today by Dion.....I think they are going to do it....the Liberals are going to transform themselves into a green party. This will be the point on the spear for them and their major plank...not a plank THE PLANK....

Mr Dion is going to walk right off of it.

15/4/07 2:25 PM  
derrida:

Stephen,
Thanks for your post. It clears things up somewhat. I understand all parties exist in tension, but usually in relation to certain core ideologies and fantasies. I still don't get "old lefties, the granola, hemp and birkenstock crowd" going Green except that A) like many middle class precious kids of the sixties, they've sold out. Supporting right wing libertarianism of the Greens is akin to the hippie that goes corporate. B) They're confusing the European Greens (who are more socialist or perhaps anarcho-libertarian) with the Canadian brand.
So what's "left" about (should I be saying "of"?) the Liberals?

16/4/07 7:51 AM  
KRB:

I've seen enough. Call the election now Stephen, before the Liberals finally get around to replacing Dion. You can only gain with this guy as Liberal leader. Hell, I thought Rae was a suicidal choice for the Liberals at the time, but he looks like absolute GOLD now!!!

Ms. May has turned the Green party into a vendetta vehicle: going after Peter MacKay because her friend Orchard was put out by his action to finally offer a viable alternative to Canadians starved of any choice nationally. She's basically said "I'm all that matters in this party and to hell with the rest of ya!" If she loses her gamble, it will be the end of her as leader.

Things are getting silly at the moment, and an election would help clear the air, and the field of some of the useless twits we currently have in the political arena.

16/4/07 12:04 PM  
KRB:

I just wonder why no reporter asked her why she didn't just run for the Liberals in Central Nova, if her overriding concern is a splitting of the vote amongst the so-called "progressive" parties???

Seems to me that she has become the de facto Liberal candidate in Central Nova (though with a sizeable asterisk), and that the other 307 Green candidates have been left for dead.

There's no way Chernoshenko would've done this deal.

What this will flush out is the full support levels of Peter MacKay in Central Nova. In 2004 and 2006, many MacKay supporters most likely stayed home, figuring MacKay was a lock (both races were tighter than they should've been). Now that MacKay is perceived to be in a fight-to-the-death, no MacKay supporter will stay home.

16/4/07 3:54 PM  
yyc:

I don't get the "disgust" part. It is surely up to every party whether it wants to field a candidate or not in any given riding.

AC, what's getting missed in the focus on the two riding deal is that May:

1. Endorsed Dion as party leader.

2. Pretty much pledged any Green MPs to support a Liberal gov't.

3. Gave interviews this weekend labelling Central Nova Orchard's revenge.

The only folks who should be more disgusted than Green supporter are Liberals who realize the Greens were more dangerous to the NDP before this screw up.

The Green leadership debate transcript shows she is at best easily spooked, at worst a bold faced liar.

Chernushenko: I’d like you to explain why you felt it necessary to call me and Jim Harris during the last election and ask us to consider asking Green Party candidates to stand aside in ridings where our running…

May: …that is something that I would not do as Green Party leader it was in my role as an NGO and it wasn’t quite as represented before so I appreciate the chance to clear it up.


As for the impact of this botched squeeze play, AP over at the Hill Times is probably closest to the mark.

16/4/07 5:07 PM  
KRB:

yyc, long time no read!! Good to have ya back. Now where's Plato's Stepchild gone to? He now only makes very rare interjections linking a current political situation to some obscure original Star Trek episode.

17/4/07 10:42 AM  
KRB:

AC: It's true that the present agreement reduces the number of parties running in each of these ridings by one. I don't recall that being an objection when the Tories and the Alliance were merging, which had the same effect in 308 ridings. Then, it was justified in the name of creating a more effective opposition.

'cept there was that little thing called a referendum in each party endorsing the merger before it went through.

If Dion can't even respect his own party's Constitution, then why should I expect him to respect that of the country?

17/4/07 10:48 AM  
Budd Campbell:

The target is the NDP alright. In fact this entire gambit between May and Dion is simply a re-tooling of the "vote strategic" gimmick of the 2004 and 2006 elections.

The only difference is that how that the Liberals are out of power they can no longer attract disappointed New Democrats as endorsers. Now they have to stoop to the fifth place Greens to find someone willing to appear on the platform at their side.

17/4/07 2:16 PM  
KRB:

Well, Liz May, Ed Broadbent, and Val Meredith were on The Current this morning talking about coalition government, and how it relates to the Red-Green deal.

Must say that Liz May is your typical sanctimonious leftie, so convinced that she's right that she has no qualms about taking on a dictatorial air.

Click here for the list of shows, and look for today's (Apr 18th).

She really gets under Ed's skin, which is also worth a listen!

18/4/07 9:44 AM  
derrida:

KRB,
"Must say that Liz May is your typical sanctimonious leftie, so convinced that she's right that she has no qualms about taking on a dictatorial air."
Unless you're equating sanctimoniousness with the Left and the Left only I don't see how Liz May can in any way be considered a Leftie. She's not communitarian, she's pro-capitalism, her policies are libertarian. By the way is there anyone more sanctimonious than Harper?

18/4/07 4:30 PM  
Mark in Bowmanville:

Derrida, to be pro capitalism, you have to throw Kyoto out the window, because if nothing else, it is a socialist program. Take from the Rich, and give to the poor. The actual reduction of Greenhouse gas ( which could be given a break by shutting up half the politicians that spout off how they feel about the enviroment)doesn't seem to be the goal so much as trading off countries with successful economies and their dough with countries that don't have successful economies. No...May isn't an capitalist, at least not in the way she should be. As for her libertarian ideals, I haven't heard nor seen any of those yet.....

20/4/07 9:20 AM  
janfromthebruce:

mark in bowmanville is doing Harper talking points - Kyoto accord is a socialist program. No, it is based on trading, countries rich in C02 emmissions trade money for countries poor in C02 emmissions. That is a market based approach, a hallmark of a capitalist system, of supple and demand, buyers, sellers, and its stock will be emmissions.

21/4/07 8:15 AM  
Andrew Doyle:

I think you have it wrong, distant uncle.

I think Dion cares about the environment more than he does about politics, and getting the Green party leader elected would surely bring advantage to nature.

23/4/07 9:53 PM