June 30, 2007

Is Canada governable?

A portrait of the dominion, on its 140th birthday:

A bill passes through the Commons against the wishes of the government, instructing it to do something that cannot be done, namely to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 35% starting next year. The government declares it has no intention of abiding by its provisions, though the opposition insists the fate of the planet rides upon it. Yet neither government nor opposition considers the matter an issue of confidence...

The government agrees to let the bill pass in the Senate, where it had faced a filibuster, in exchange for the Liberals’ agreement to pass the government’s budget -- a money bill, whose defeat by the unelected upper house would be without precedent. Liberal senators reply that the budget itself is “unconstitutional” and “illegal”, insofar as it is alleged to have broken a promise made to certain provinces, a constitutional principle that had until now escaped notice.

In much the same vein, the Prime Minister is heard to complain that rogue elements within the foreign affairs department are substituting their own views of Canada’s role in the world for those of elected officials -- a charge seemingly upheld some days later by a memo from senior bureaucrats to departmental staff outlining the apparently novel concept of “alignment” with government policy. 

Off Parliament Hill, the provinces continue to expand their own powers and privileges at the expense of the federal government -- now immigration is added to the list, now foreign affairs -- even as they claim a larger and larger share of the federal budget. Canada’s contribution to the fight against global warming is a chaos of overlapping taxes and regulations, federal and provincial, designed entirely without reference to one another. A meeting of provincial finance ministers ends with no agreement even on a common securities regulator, leave aside the broader question of internal free trade -- one of the founding purposes, supposedly, of Confederation.

Confederation? The province of Quebec, notwithstanding a steady stream of concessions up to and including formal Parliamentary recognition as a “nation,” holds an election  in which the nominally “federalist” Liberal government is reduced to the barest of pluralities. Two-thirds of the National Assembly is now in the hands of parties that are dedicated to an independent Quebec, whether de jure (the Parti Québécois) or de facto (the “autonomist” Action Démocratique).

Meanwhile, Newfoundland is making Quebec-ish noises, even vowing to become “maitres chez nous,” in protest at being given a special exemption from a new equalization formula; Saskatchewan is suing the federal government because it only gains an extra $288-million from the same formula; and Nova Scotia is in open revolt for being offered a choice between the two.

And while all of this is going on, native protesters are blocking railways, barricading roads, seizing provincial parks, and occupying towns, in most cases with absolute impunity, to back up land claims that can add up to 100% or more of a province’s territory. 

Senate obstructionism. Bureaucratic rebellion. Provincial expansionism. Native lawlessness. Quebec separatism. On this Canada Day, the question is perhaps more pertinent than ever: Is Canada governable? Or is the federal government descending ever further into impotence?

Some of this is simply the inevitable consequence of minority government, whose vulnerability invites exploitation. Some is the legacy of many years of one-party rule, a permanent Liberal establishment seeking to frustrate the Conservatives at every turn. (Remember the heat Stephen Harper took for musing aloud, just before the last election, about the constraints placed upon him by the courts, the bureaucracy and the Senate? Doesn’t seem so far-fetched now, does it?) 

Some reflects institutional weakness at the centre in one of the world’s most decentralized federations -- an ill without remedy, it would seem, since any amendment to the constitution now requires the assent of the provinces, not only collectively, but individually. No doubt, too, that governments at all levels have fewer levers of power at their disposal than they might have had in the past, having willingly forgone some of these under various international trade treaties. 

But some of the present drift and division is rooted in a breakdown of basic norms of democratic governance. 

Governability depends on the various players in the political arena agreeing to certain ground rules: respect for the law, respect for democracy, respect for each other, and for the broader national interest. All of these are now in various stages of decay and neglect.

The natives who are now openly defying the law across much of southern Ontario, would not feel quite such ease in doing so had they not watched others before them advertise their contempt for the rule of law, and get away with it. Some native reserves, notably in Ontario and Quebec, have long been no-go zones, where police dare not intrude. Nor is this phenomenon restricted to natives. What was -- is? -- the consensus among the Quebec political class, but that the province could separate unilaterally, i.e. outside the bounds of law or constitutionality?

Likewise, the senators who were openly threatening to defeat the federal budget were perhaps pushing the limits of what is democratically tolerable, even in this country -- though no more so than they were in shelving government legislation to restrict their term of office to eight years. If they did not quite dare to press ahead with the first, moreover, they have plainly got away with the second. And with each new act of defiance, each new encroachment upon the principle that the power to legislate is reserved to those the people have elected for the purpose, they are emboldened to further outrages. 

With contempt for the law, and contempt for democracy, being in such wide circulation, it was perhaps inevitable that our political leaders should come to evince such contempt for each other. If, after all, we cannot even agree to obey the law, or to accept the will of the people, why should we expect that other broad principles of democratic government, though they command universal assent in other countries, would prove any less controversial? Principles, for example, such as the notion that we are all part of the same self-governing body of citizens, the same polity -- the same, you know, nation. 

When the premiers cannot bring themselves to accept one of the basic distinguishing features of a country, the free circulation of goods and services within its borders, it is not because they are rank protectionists -- though they are that. It is because, deep down, they do not recognize each other as countrymen. And when the federal government fails to enforce the common market upon them, because it fears it lacks the legitimacy to do so, it confirms not only its own helplessness, but that, deep down, the premiers are right.

It may seem odd, speaking of the federal government’s weakness, at a time of such concern over the accumulation of power in the prime minister’s office. But the powers of a prime minister, even in possession of a majority, are increasingly confined to his immediate surroundings. Pierre Trudeau once famously said that MPs were nobodies once they got 50 yards off Parliament Hill. The same it seems, is becoming true of PMs.

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45 Comments

ron in kelowna:

You certainly described what is happening in Canada these days, Andrew. Described it well.

How did we get to this state ?? A lawless state. A fractured country.

It started a long time ago, IMO.

By reducing the taxes on cigarettes instead of stoping the border-running.

By allowing multicults to overtake Canadiancult.

Because we have too much geography and not enough history. (Not our fault.)

Decades of power-at-any-cost Liberals gaining power by playing one region against another. Fostered resentment.

A federal liberal policy of picking leaders who are only from Ontario and Quebec.

By allowing inter-provicial barriers such as supply management in eggs, chickens and dairy products.

By allowing an unelected Senate to abuse it's power.

By giving yearly $Billion handouts to a lightening rod --- the CBC.

Because Canadians are blessed with a national media that does everything in it's power to make us feel guilty.

Guilty that our soldiers are helping the helpless.

Guilty that we are heating our homes at minus 30 degrees.

Guilty that we set foot on North America and turned the place into a prosperous Nation.

Guilty that we may be feeling happy when most of the news they present at 10 is all-the-world's-calamity.

By a former PM hinting that it is OK to light up a joint and start on the path to frying your brains.

By a policy of rewarding failure and punishing success.

By allowing perpetraitor rights to trump victim rights.

By not nipping provincial blackmail in the bud.

A policy of telling Canadians that if they pay unusually high taxes all their life they will have free medicare --- didn't say when. A feeling of betrayal.

The media's police brutality thing ---- never the punk's fault.

The United Nations is supposed to be-our-hero-thing ---- even though it is the most corrupt organization ever. Canada's prowd place in the world ??

Is Canada governable, you ask ??

It is hard to govern a population that is down on itself. That feels betrayed. That is played against one another. That, nightly, sees extreme bias in the media. (You don't speak for me.)

Big task ahead :)

30/6/07 2:13 AM  
Quebecois Separatiste:

This is very sad, but there are now 3 federalists parties in Quebec.

Pauline Marois just announced that sovereignty is on hold.

What does that mean now? this is very very sad. If we can't make sovereignty now, I don't see how we can make it in 20 years from now.

This is very very sad.

30/6/07 2:21 AM  
Anonymous:

Ungovernable??
How about politics as ever! All, in the end, is in the eye of the beholder, and the only thing truly off in the piece are your expectations of a, you know, single and united Canadian ‘nation’. High marks for dramatization though!

30/6/07 2:23 AM  
Anonymous:

Somewhere after the 1995 referendum we started down the path of becoming nothing more than a chequebook federal state. No alliegancies to any form of national government, only support insofar as it gets money from "other" people. The key here is "other" is no longer people outside of Canada, it's people in different provinces. The lines seperating who is "us" and "them" have truly shifted recently, and now divide us even though we are technically all citizens of the same nation. Truly is sad. Happy Canada day.

30/6/07 5:49 AM  
bigcitylib:

I think you mistake problems with the governing party for problems with the nation they govern. Things were going swimmingly before Harper et al. The Kelowna accord had been signed, and the mess made last time the Tories got in federally was being cleaned up.

Not two years later, kerflooey! Conservatives always talk "responsibility", Andy. Why not try taking some?

30/6/07 11:15 AM  
Anonymous:

BCL: "The Kelowna accord had been signed ..."

And yet Ralph Goodale allocated ZERO DOLLARS in his final budget for Native programs mentioned in this Accord. Once again, the Liberals fail to put their money where their mouth is.

Back to the article ... Andrew, you are our last hope for bringing the debate around to the proper role of the FEDERAL government. So that when Liberals and NDPers talk about national day care, a sane media voice can direct them to section 92 of the BNA Act, where it outlines the responsibilities of the PROVINCIAL governments. The big one being social programs.

Quebecers and Albertans understand and appreciate the importance of separation of powers and responsibilities between the feds and the provinces. Ontario, and especially the GTA, are clueless.

30/6/07 12:22 PM  
Anonymous:

"Things were going swimmingly before Harper et al. The Kelowna accord had been signed, and the mess made last time the Tories got in federally was being cleaned up."

What a surprise! The Liberal completely misses the point and blames all of Canada's problems on the Conservatives. Perhaps they are not the only ones who need to learn to take some responsibility.

30/6/07 12:45 PM  
Anonymous:

Harper is trying to make Canada what ut isn't - American.

We are not comfortable being anything but Canadian and it's slipping away. That's why the unrest.

Liberals are blaming Conservatives and Conservatives blame Liberals (for everything including their own failures).

I'm sick of the petty partisanship that has developed since the current Conservative (Republican) party has been formed.

All we hear is negativity, slamming, trashing, bashing and blaming.

If we had a mature government that faced the fact that this is Canada we might get somewhere.

This is absolutely shameful. I've never seen it so bad.

30/6/07 1:28 PM  
Anonymous:

"I'm sick of the petty partisanship that has developed since the current Conservative (Republican) party has been formed."

Way to contribute to putting an end to petty partisanship. I'm sure calling the Conservatives a bunch of Canada-destroying republicans is going to get them to come around. Any day now.

30/6/07 2:13 PM  
neilfromvernon:

It is my understanding that the majority of the Senate is Liberal. Which is why it is no suprise they will do anything to prevent their unlimited gravy train of a job and life from being halted. That Harper is trying to make Senators elected and push for a more democratic Canada is a step in the right direction. On what principle would someone be against this?
As far as the equalization problems go, it seems everyone has a different rulebook in front of them... after reading a Nation of Serfs?, it would seem this stems from the mistake of not writing laws a little more clearly (or at all) at the time of Confederation.

Natives protesting? When will they not protest? As Ron mentioned, our media is always there to make us feel bad we ever came to North America. It's high time we all stopped working, give the Natives everything they want (they were here first, after all -- just like Paris Hilton was the first to be famous for doing nothing), and put Jack Layton in control of the country. Hard to imagine then how anyone could be upset at anything; The Province newspaper and the CBC might just have nothing to report.

30/6/07 5:02 PM  
Steve L.:

"We are not comfortable being anything but Canadian and it's slipping away."

Sieg Anonymous 30/6/07 1:28 PM. deport every one of those un-Canadian motherf*ckers. every single immigrant, every single Republican-supporting mongrel, all of them.

Canadian identity blah blah blah. go f*ck yourself Mr. Canada-supremacist.

30/6/07 5:26 PM  
paul.obeda@:

"Quebec [...] including formal Parliamentary recognition as a “nation”"

A minor point, perhaps, to the central thesis of the article, but one I consider to be important: the recognition of Quebec as a nation was soundly defeated by the House of Commons. It was a recognition of Quebecois as a nation within a united Canada which received the assent of the House.

That being dispensed with, I've long wondered when the various provincial and federal leaders will realize that in Canada, they are but different branches of the same Government: a Government vested in the Crown, Queen Elizabeth II. They recommend, she assents (through her representative, the Governor General). She enacts (through the many government agencies).

The federal and provincial governments are not independent sovereigns, as they are in the U.S. As this article well articulates, it's high time the elected and appointed arms of government started acting like we're all Canadians.

30/6/07 6:18 PM  
Robert McClelland:

A bill passes through the Commons against the wishes of the government, instructing it to do something that cannot be done, namely to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 35% starting next year.

I don't recall any bill like this passing through the HOC. Perhaps you're mistaking it with the one that instructed the government to meet our Kyoto obligations; which are to either reduce ghg emmissions or purchase carbon credits if we don't. And purchasing carbon credits is certainly not impossible.

30/6/07 6:30 PM  
Anonymous:

And purchasing carbon credits is certainly not impossible.

Not impossible, but extremely stupid.

30/6/07 9:49 PM  
Shane Baker:

Coyne, you've done it again.

Your last column did nothing for me, but then here's this article- like a punch in the FACE. No one else in the country is saying this. Just you. I want to find the nearest megaphone and scream the text of this article into it.

30/6/07 10:34 PM  
Sean:

The problems with the Senate and the public service are the same: government officials exempt from democratic elections. Just the fact that we have such a large public service is part of the problem.

The problem with the kyoto bill is a lack of respect for our democratic institutions by the opposition parties, they are clearly breaking a rule of the house.

Intrusion of the federal government into provincial jurisdictions has resulted in the other problems: equalization, separation, newfoundland, and even the natives who have become welfare junkies addicted to government handovers of land and money.

I don't think there is a lack of unity or sense of a nation, just a lot of power struggles regarding who runs the place.

The first fix would be for the liberals to actually act like they lost the last election, instead of using dirty tricks to retain power. The second fix would be a return to the rule of law equally applied to everyone, so that maritimers are treated the same as others, natives the same as others, Quebecers the same as others, and the senators and the opposition parties abiding by the traditional rules of the house and senate. Problem solved, but it's easier said than done, once the gates of chaos have been opened they are hard to close.

1/7/07 3:40 AM  
Do ALL Liberals Lie ???:

"bigcitylib:

I think you mistake problems with the governing party for problems with the nation they govern. Things were going swimmingly before Harper et al. The Kelowna accord had been signed, and the mess made last time the Tories got in federally was being cleaned up.

Not two years later, kerflooey! Conservatives always talk "responsibility", Andy. Why not try taking some?"

You need to change your medication buddy . . . too much psychosis in your current dosage.

1/7/07 1:01 PM  
springer:

That would be the same "Kelowna Accord" worth 5 billion signed off by Martin just hours before his government finally came crashing down?

The accord that was going to fix all the disasters with the First Nations' that had been accumulating over the past dozen years of Liberal management?

This would be the same Liberals who now are blocking the granting of the same rights all other Canadians take for granted to First Nations' women? Rights we're fighting for Afghan women to have, but our own native women have been blocked from for umpteen decades?

Oh, yes, excuse me! The Liberals and Dippers say that we have to "study" this proposal first for a year or so, so we can be sure of all the ramifications thereof.

I don't doubt giving First Nations women equal rights will have ramifications. Lots of 'em.

Especially for First Nations men who've had it all their way since forever.

The astounding double standards of the Liberal Left in this country just make ya wanna puke sometimes, eh?

2/7/07 1:03 AM  
Gabriel...:

As long as the Teachers own the NHL and the Phone Lines I'm not sure what it is we can do... I'm not sure where any of this matters as long as I'm distracted by hockey and Internet Porn.

2/7/07 2:18 PM  
Immigration Heretic:

The Canadian Malaise

Andrew Coyne has hit all the nails squarely on
the head with the best article about the Canadian
malaise since historian Michael Bliss' 2006 essay for
Literary Review of Canada, "A working non-nation?"

Put frankly,"Canada" has become no more than
a bad joke -- a patchwork quilt of squabbling
special interest groups, essentially tribal
in nature, united only by geography, platitudes
and their eagerness to plunder the rest of us.

This road to ruin is an inevitable consequence
of the political process, especially democratic
processes. It can only be held at bay by a common
culture with an ethos that utterly condemns those
seeking preferential treatment for their own subgroup
at the expense of the whole.

So much has been written about the dangers of
a majority oppressing a minority that few people
recognize it is usually the other way around. It
seems a paradox but in most modern democracies, it
is the minorities that rule.

The reason lies in the economics of voting. To buy
the votes of an cohesive ethnic, religious, or other
special interest group, one needs to give them a
payoff, or some other form of preferential treatment,
that outweighs considerations that might lead them to
vote differently.

When the special interest group is relatively small
and the cost of the bribe can be spread over the
entire population or at least over the majority
of the citizenry, then the payoff received by each
minority group member can be large enough to buy
their votes. Meanwhile, the additional cost imposed
on the majority can be spread thinly enough that the
members of the majority may not even notice and if
they do it is not large enough for them to organize
against it or for it to alter many of their votes.

Collect a few of these special interest voting blocks
and combine them with a reasonable-sized slice of the
majority who are generally unaware of how much they
stand to lose when the total cost of the parties' vote
buying is added up and you have a recipe for political
success.

Combining this natural tendency for democratic countries
to decay into a myriad of special interest factions
with the world's highest per capita immigration rate,
a multiculturalism policy designed to prevent any
assimilation of ethnic groups imported from totally
incompatible cultures, and a mindset that views the
interests of the majority as inherently illegitimate
simply because it is the majority, the inevitable
drift downwards toward chaos and perpetual conflict
becomes an avalanche.

Immigration Heretic

2/7/07 3:54 PM  
Anonymous:

And here I thought Canada was a hotel. Fair amount of noise from some of the other guests, though. Room service isn't bad, but I have to tip pretty heavy.

2/7/07 9:38 PM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Good column.

In the last 40 years, federal governments have, broadly speaking, alternated between two approaches to federalism. Under Trudeau and Chrétien, we had what I would call 'muscular' federalism. Under Mulroney, Martin and Harper, we had (and have) 'compliant' federalism. Muscular federalism assumes that the federal government speaks for Canada as a whole and asserts its prerogatives (political and legal) against the provinces. Compliant federalism assumes that the provinces are more legitimate spokesmen for the people, being closer to them, and thus that the federal government should defer to them in defining the scope and nature of canadian federalism.

Despite being the subject of highly visible populist screeds in the West and nationalist calumny in Québec, 'muscular' federalism results in more popular, more stable federal governments. No one has ever been more effective at convincing Quebeckers to stay in Canada than the 'arrogant' and 'centralizing' Trudeau. In more recent times, separatism reached its lowest ebb after Chrétien and Dion unleashed Plan B and Clarity act. (And if it wasn't for the NEP, an avoidable yet catastrophic lapse in political judgment, the Liberals would still be a force to be reckoned with in the West).

For this federation to be stable, you need a federal prime minister who believes in his own legitimacy and is willing to set it against that of the premiers. Despite the fact that provincialist leaders like Williams and Bouchard are sometimes highly popular, there is no relationship between their popularity and the electoral viability of muscular federalism.

This is, ultimately, why the Conservatives govern badly, at least from the standpoint of the practice of federalism. They believe in smaller government, and thus instinctively believe that the central government should be as weak as possible. But in practice, in Canada, a weak central government creates an unstable dynamic in which, paradoxically, the provinces take more and more and the federal government becomes less and less legitimate.

2/7/07 10:14 PM  
WJM:

Per s. 95 of the Constitution Act, the provinces already have concurrent jurisdiction over immigration, if they choose to exercise it.

2/7/07 10:35 PM  
FDuquette:

It is debatable to argue that those issues make Canada ungovernable. Examine the problem the U.S. has now with illegal immigration, roughly 5% of their population, a debacle which US lawmakers have repeatedly and utterly failed to legislate. Certain issues expose vulnerabilities and weakneses, but does that issue make the U.S. similarly ungovernable as a whole or just on that issue?
I recall H.L.A. Hart's classic 'Concept of Law' which defined a legal system as the union of primary and secondary rules: citizens (generally) accept the primary rules or obligations defined by the state (e.g., law against murder, must pay tax); but primary rules of obligation are not in themselves sufficient to establish a system of law - a secondary set of rules must exist to formally recognize, change, or adjudicate primary rules as need arises (parliament and courts), these being the responsibility of the state.
In what manner then is Canada ungovernable? For example, are citizens rejecting primary rules because the federal govenment is unable to assert its 2ndary obligations? I think one requires a model of governance that is more analytical than the democratic norm of consensus, if to better determine if an issue is merely an isolated phenomena or a symptom of widespread dysfunction.

3/7/07 2:14 AM  
springer:

IMHO, the singular detriment to the unity of this nation has been a political philosophy of "centralism", otherwise popularly known as "Trudeau federalism". This exacerbated the already inherent imbalance caused, due to concentration of votes, by the reality of Ontario's, and to a lesser degree Quebec's, influence over political decisions at the federal level. Consequently the balance of the nation learned to distrust, even fear, the increasing bias of an ever intrusive federal government into provincial jurisdictional matters.

Most notable examples of the abuses thereof are the N.E.P that savaged Alberta for the supposed economic benefit of central Canada, and the asinine gun registry that treated primarily western Canadian firearms owners as potential criminals for no other reason than to soothe urban voters of the GTA and Montreal with a pretense that Ottawa was doing something about their crime problems.

Even as I write this it is clear that even Harper is faced with this same political reality: Suck up to Ontario and Quebec, or perish.

The best solution ever presented to this paradox was proffered by Preston Manning, in which the the federal government would be reduced to administration of clearly national priority such as defense, international trade, monetary policy, and the like, with the provinces left to administer those areas of jurisdiction granted by the B.N.A.

This provides for diversity sans the overriding threat of political interference from far-off bureaucrats with their own political agendas that cater to a concentration of votes in other regions of the nation with entirely different cultural and economic priorities.

Centralism, by the very nature of Canada's size, is a doomed strategy, if not actually a formula for ultimate disaster.

3/7/07 10:27 AM  
Stephen:

But isnt the argumnent that a majority government is too powerful and has no checks against it?

Once again why I dont like PR in most forms because it leads to what we are seeing.

Canada is not easy to govern. Unless of course you have a mojority government and a fractured opposition, like Chretien had.

I say call the election sooner rather than later.

Now my Canada day experience was spent in Eastern Ontario at a small town festival west of Kingston. And from the cheering they gave the british soldiers who expelled the American invasion in 1812 to the open displays of partriotism etc the country looked pretty together at that level.

I think the elits are warring, I dont think the people are.

Call an election, settle the score and lets get on with the next 4 years of our lives withour having to worry about who is in charge or who will be in charge.

Quebec will vote Con in a manner that is enough to push the cons over the top. Once that happens the maritimes will fall in line as will all other malcontents because it will be clear who has the power.

And it isnt worht disrespecting those who hold the absolute power of a majority. Our craven elites will cower, kow tow, pander and plead like they always have.

2 majority con governments then it will be time to turf them out as well.

3/7/07 11:34 AM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Springer -

A few things:

1. There are far more gun owners in Ontario and Québec than in BC, Al, Sk and MB combined. It was every bit as unpopular with rural voters here as out West. It was not a Central Canada vs. Western Canada issue.

2. Contrary to popular myth, Trudeau's premiership began a long period of decentralization. I won't bore you with the details unless you want me to, but virtually every single shared-cost program in areas of provincial jurisdiction (education, health etc.) was set up prior to his being elected. He began, with the establishment of the Established Programs Fund, the gradual process of loosening federal control over these areas, to the point where today the funding is virtually unconditional.

3. Federal interference in provincial matters (on a large scale) resulted from a peculiar alignment of the political and fiscal stars following WWII, when the feds had exclusive control over almost all direct taxes (and thus most sources of revenue). That situation no longer exists, nor can it ever return, barring another World War-scale conflict.

4. Re: the 'structural imbalance', what other principle do you suggest aside from the democratic principle? Ontario and Québec have 65% of the population. It's not illegitimate for them to be more influential. Besides, it's not like they are monolithic wholes that think and act with one voice.

3/7/07 5:39 PM  
paul.obeda@:

"And purchasing carbon credits is certainly not impossible."

The Speaker of the House ruled numerous times that Bill C-288 cannot under any interpretation require the Government to spend money (beyond regular, day-to-day administration). It cannot result in the creation of a new, expensive program (which would require a money bill, which must be initiated by the Government).

3/7/07 7:03 PM  
AWK:

Stephen: "But isnt the argumnent that a majority government is too powerful and has no checks against it?"

The argument that a democratically elected majority government is "too powerful" really is a sad testament to how cynical the Canadian electorate has become.

But to answer this concern please be reminded that we do have a Constitution, the courts, and the Senate - all capable of exerting some degree of check and balance.

And of course the ultimate check is the prospect of facing the people in the next election. That can be fairly sobering at times - particularly if people start to pay attention.

4/7/07 3:59 AM  
springer:

Erik...

1) Certainly the registry was a thinly veiled pitting of urban against rural voters. Nevertheless, the payoff counted upon by the Libs was to come in the GTA, Montreal, and to a lesser extent, hopefully Vancouver. It was the epitome of the kind of divisive politics that was the trademark of that party.

For this gun owner it will be a frosty day in hell before I ever even remotely consider voting for the Lib s.o.b.s.

2) Some history for you. In the '60s western based Socred MPs pushed for a pipeline for Alberta oil to eastern Canadian markets. Both the Libs and PCs scoffed at the idea because cheap oil was readily available from offshore sources.

When the shinola hit the proverbial fan as the Mid East cranked oil prices, suddenly Alberta oil was vitally important. And cheap Alberta oil was suddenly in the best interests of the "nation". Hence Trudeau's NEP.

I was in Alberta when the NEP hit, and witnessed the utter havoc it wrought upon their economy, and thus individual livelihoods.

The Libs would not for even a moment have considered such a plan were the oil in Quebec.

Trudeau "federalism" for you.

3) It doesn't matter precisely when federal interference in provincial jurisdictions started.

What matters is how the Liberals, and to a lesser degree PCs, exploited it to their own political ends, mostly to maintain their bases of power in Ontario and Quebec at the expense of the rest of the colonies.

4) EEE Senate.

They don't "think like one"?

Despite the proof of being subjected to arguably the most corrupt government in Canadian history, nevertheless the majority of Ontarians preferred their morally bereft Liberals over the notion of any western based government led by someone out of Alberta.

Whatever.

As a westerner, been on the receiving end of this endless crap longer than I care to remember.

4/7/07 10:26 AM  
Sean:

Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

You have a highly selective interpretation of events.

"No one has ever been more effective at convincing Quebeckers to stay in Canada than the 'arrogant' and 'centralizing' Trudeau"

The rise of Quebec separatism in the 70's coincided with Trudeau's reign. I'm sure you'll find someone else to blame for that though.

"In more recent times, separatism reached its lowest ebb after Chrétien and Dion unleashed Plan B and Clarity act"

Hello? Who was in power in 1995, and had been for several years, when the country was nearly split, perhaps the peak of separatism? Yes, that was Chretien.

Meanwhile, separatism has been on the wane since Harper arrived - look at the support for the Bloc and the PQ. Contrary to Andrew's assertion, the ADQ is not separatist, they are simply opportunist. And of course, in between the storms of the 70's and 90's, we had Mulroney.

You see what you wish to see, not the reality.

Liberals and their muscular federalism is EXACTLY what drives Quebecers to separate. Put the Liberals in power for a few years and regional disaffection is sure to follow.

4/7/07 12:26 PM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Sean -

If Trudeau hadn't been on the federal scene at that time, Québec would almost certainly have voted for independance. To claim that a single man was the cause of separatism is absolutely ridiculous. The causes of seperatism are far deeper and older than that. In any case, my point was relatively limited. In the 1980 election, after 10 years of separatism and with the first ever PQ government in power, Trudeau won 74 of 75 seats in Québec. Obviously, something about his approach was appealing to Quebeckers.

RE: Chrétien and Dion, you're totally ignoring what my point was. 1995 was a debacle partly because the feds adopted a relatively hands-off approach (which was more or less working, btw, until Bouchard got involved with two weeks to go and all the polls very suddenly flipped the other way). The agressive response AFTER the referendum, culminating in the Clarity act, drove support for separation down to its lowest levels since 1980 and gave the Liberals a plurality of the vote in the 2000 election.

Finally, in response to this:

"Liberals and their muscular federalism is EXACTLY what drives Quebecers to separate. Put the Liberals in power for a few years and regional disaffection is sure to follow."

Maybe you're not reading the same newspapers as I am. As I see it, regional disaffection is just as high or higher under Harper than it was under the Libs. Your prediction simply has no merit.

(Just to be clear, I'm not claiming Trudeau and Chrétien were saints or made no mistakes. But the facts bear out my observation, which is strictly value-neutral)

Springer -

You are a bitter, bitter man, and you have a very serious persecution complex.

1. On the NEP: your criticism here is hypocritical. On the one hand you criticize the Liberals for not wanting to build a pipeline when that would have benefited the West, and then you criticize them for wanting to do so when oil prices were high and it would have cost the West money. The only constant in all that is your desire to see the West get richer. When government intervention will help the West, you praise it; when it will hurt, you condemn it. I don't have a problem with you wanting what's best for your part of the country, but it's hardly a principled stance against government intervention. So please get off your high horse of moral self-righteousness.

2. On the gun registry: You're correct in saying that it was done against the wishes of most of rural Canada. But what you said in your first post was that it was a further example of the feds screwing the West, which is simply untrue. Whether or not it's "divise" is up for debate. No policy will ever gain 100% support, so pointing out that the registry's unpopular in certain segments of the country is hardly a serious criticism. Personally, I think it's totally ridiculous, not to mention civically irresponsible, to refuse to ever vote again for a party because of one particular policy that you happen to dislike because it cost you 60 bucks.

3. On federal interference in provincial jurisdiction: Yes, it *does* matter when it started. You can't understand a phenomenon without knowing it's origin. In any case, the federal government hasn't used its spending power to cajole the provinces into adopting policies it likes in over 35 years.

4. On the EEE Senate: I don't really know what you were getting at, since you never made an argument in favour of it. Personally, I seriously doubt whether giving PEI (pop: 140,000) the same weight as Ontario (pop: 12.5 million) in the Senate would make our politics healthier and more effective.

5. On the 'morally bereft' Liberals: I assume you're referring to the sponsorship scandal. I think many people (not just Ontarians) understood that that was a case of a few unscrupulous individuals taking advantage of a badly managed program. That hardly makes the entire party morally bankrupt. In any case, most reasonable people are not single-issue voters. Weighing against the Conservatives was their image as angry, white, male social reactionaries out of line with the political mainstream, and as a regional protest party bent on settling scores. It had nothing to do with the fact that Harper (a Torontonian) now lives out West. You seriously need to learn not to despise people who disagree with you. You might give yourself an ulcer.

4/7/07 1:17 PM  
Anonymous:

"Maybe you're not reading the same newspapers as I am. As I see it, regional disaffection is just as high or higher under Harper than it was under the Libs. Your prediction simply has no merit."

The newspapers you are reading obviously have a short memory. The only place where there appears to be any lingering resentment over the equalization formula is in the Atlantic provinces. I consider this a vast improvement over the Paul Martin year where he kept telling us that he needed to be re-elected so he could fight the separatists in an imminent referendum that looked like a coin-toss as to who would win it.

4/7/07 3:01 PM  
Ian in NS:

Erik here seems to have a stunning Liberal-coloured view, or perhaps I should say Trudeau-coloured view, of Canadian political history. He praises Trudeau's 1980 election results and his impact on Quebec on the basis of 74/75 seats in the province - and leaves out that in 1984, Quebec turned against the Liberals with a vengeance. In fact, Quebec has never voted a plurality of Liberals into office since 1980; a nearly 30-year-old legacy of Trudeau's constitutional policy.

He also leaves out, while trumpeting 1980, that the Liberals held zero seats in any of the three westernmost provinces, failing to muster even a quarter of the vote, and garnered just two in Manitoba, finishing third in that province. A real unifying government, that was.

I believe the rest of his statements to be similarly biased - he simply brushes off western hatred of Trudeau's NEP with a form of the usual central Canadian refrain of, "The West is just greedy," dismisses the sponsorship scandal as the work of "a few unscrupulous individuals", and tosses out the ridiculous stereotype of Conservatives as "angry, white, male social reactionaries".

The script couldn't have been written any better if it had come out of a Liberal PR firm, or perhaps the CBC.

4/7/07 5:17 PM  
wsam:

Wow. What a great bare-knuckle brawl of a thread. There are actual arguments been made. Springer you should pay attention. Erik is showing how to win an argument. Use facts. Instead of ranting about how you and everyone you know is still damn mad about the NEP!

4/7/07 5:38 PM  
springer:

Erik...

Fact: Nobody in Ottawa gave a damn about Alberta's oil when there was ample supply offshore for cheap. When the cheap oil dried up, only then was a national pipeline from Alberta in the national interest.

Oil they demanded at cut rates...just like they were paying for basically everything else out of the west.

I used to tell people, you want to know what Canada is all about, you sit a rail crossing in the prairies and watch the trains go by. You'll quickly notice that come west pretty much empty, and they go east loaded.

I know. I used to watch 'em every day on the way to work in Lloydminster.

Fact: In 1987 I attended a western separatist rally in Lloyd along with 600 others, almost all of whom bought memberships.

Three months later I attended another to hear one Preston Manning, along with 600 people...the same people, almost all of whom took out Reform Party memberships.

To this day I believe he prevented the almost certain break up of this nation...something I suspect most people out east neither even suspect, nor could care less anyway.

I well remember the day when the hottest selling shirts and hats in Alberta read: "Let them eastern bastards freeze in the dark!" And nobody was laughing, I assure you.

Fact: I well remember when Ottawa slapped a 40% import tarrif on Japanese steel being imported to supply BC's boom times under WAC Bennett's government. They did so to protect Ontario's industry.

Not only was the west expected to supply the east with cut rate resources, we were also expected to pay a premium for whatever we bought back from them.

Business as usual in the colonies for the last umpteen decades, pal.

And there was SFA that could be done about it, because Ontario and Quebec had the votes, and we didn't, period, end of story, tough luck suckers.

And what happened to western political leaders?

They inevitably have a shelf life of about your average fruit fly.

It took the most rotten government in living memory, led by a veritable boob surrounded by a bunch of utter thugs, to finally get a PM elected from the west, still only to head up the barest of minority governments...something not lost on many out here.

Next, I never paid a red cent to have my firearms registered, and I don't know anyone who did.

Fact: It wasn't about the money. It was about being insulted, repeatedly and shamelessly. It was about being cast as literal criminals. It was about being lied to endlessly and with such shocking aplomb. And it was about bunch of ignorant asses making easy targets out of a minority sector of the population, while being pathetically gutless and sniveling twits when it came to dealing with crime and those actually commit it.

A EEE Senate doesn't need explaining. If people can understand the mockery of democracy that is the collection of hacks in our current senate, comprehending a the concept of a real senate should be a snap.

Lastly, I'm not bitter.

I just have a good enough memory to recognize when someone else is disrespectfully dishing out the shinola.

4/7/07 9:38 PM  
Anonymous:

Tainspotting isn't just a Scottish novel, it's a lifestyle.

Fact: Alberta good, the East bad.

Fact: nobody in Ottawa cares about Alberta. Nobody!!!

Fact: Alberta

Fact: That people in the East (except rural Ontario) didn't vote for Preston Manning or Stockwell Day means they hate Alberta.

Fact: I'm right, you're not.

5/7/07 10:17 AM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Springer - Your 1000 word rant about the manifold ways in which the West has been 'screwed' by Ottawa 'thugs' for the benefit of Ontario and Québec merely demonstrates that I was correct in my assessment that you have a persecution complex. The irony here is that people like you in Québec are separatists for the exact same reason: they think the federal government perpetually screws Québec. The problem is, at least one of you has to be wrong. My guess is that you're both too angry to think straight.

For what it's worth, I lived in Estevan for a few months and I've watched the trains go by. Somehow, I didn't reach the same conclusions as you. What I did notice is that resentment towards Central Canada seems to be part of the culture out there. It's a received opinion many children are raised with. As a rule, I don't like and I don't trust received opinions.

Ian - this is a comment-board on a blog. I can't exactly spell in out in great detail my entire understanding of Canadian history. The observations I've been making have been very limited, and I'd appreciate it if you respected that. My only point, in observing that Trudeau won 74 of 75 seats in 1980, was that his 'muscular' approach (i.e. his willingness to defend the prerogatives of the federal government against provincializing forces) was electorally viable. The results of the 1984 election don't undermine the correctness of that observation, for a variety of reasons. First, Trudeau was gone. Second, the NEP (which I've already agreed was a total disaster) wiped out the Liberals in the West for at least a generation (and maybe two). Third, Mulroney thought it would be a good idea to tell Quebeckers that they'd been humiliated by repatriation and stirred up nationalist fervour against the new constitution. Fourth, the Liberals had been in power for 16 years, more than long enough to become exhausted.

Also, while the Liberals haven't had a plurality of seats, they did win a plurality of the vote in 2000. But that's a minor point of fact.

Finally, I want to respond to this:

"I believe the rest of his statements to be similarly biased - he simply brushes off western hatred of Trudeau's NEP with a form of the usual central Canadian refrain of, "The West is just greedy," dismisses the sponsorship scandal as the work of "a few unscrupulous individuals", and tosses out the ridiculous stereotype of Conservatives as "angry, white, male social reactionaries".
"

First, I didn't say the Conservatives were reactionaries. I said they had that *image* in Ontario, which prevented them from making serious inroads there (or in any major city for that matter). I would never be so cavalier as to make blanket generalizations about a whole party (I'm not Mr. Springer); but, when a party has guys like Vic Toews in the front ranks and very few strong women, it gives off a certain impression. That image was widespread in Ontario (and still is in Québec, which is why the Tories are only popular where the Action Démocratique is), and contributed to poor showings. Again, I'm just making observations about political realities.

(And for the record, I voted for the Tories in the last election).

Second, I never called the West 'greedy'. Never. In fact, I said Springer was well within his rights to want what is best for his part of the country. Nor did I dismiss Western anger at the NEP. I called it a 'catastrophe'. What I did say, in response to Springer's incoherent set of arguments, was that if one's criticism of federal policies is going to be based on one's own self-interest (in this case, wanting Alberta to extract the maximum amount of wealth from its oil deposits) then one can't claim to be making 'principled' or 'moral' arguments about how governments should conduct themselves in a federal system.

(As an aside, most of the harm to the Alberta economy that came in the wake of the NEP was not, in fact, caused by the NEP itself, but rather by the precipitous decline in world oil prices at right about the same time. Albertan oil is expensive to extract. Unfortunately, the fact that this happened right on the heels of the NEP, and the fact that the Reagan administration and its cronies in the US oil industry which was responsible for most of the investment in Alberta were so vocally against the NEP and the Foreign Investment Review Agency, contributed to creating the perception amongst Albertans that, not only had Ottawa run roughshod over their profit margin in Canada, it had decimated the provinces economy as well. The first was true. The second wasn't).

Finally, with respect to the sponsorship scandal, all I've done is repeat Judge Gomery's findings. The Liberal government that put the program in place certainly deserves its share of blame for having created a situation in which it was easy for money to be stolen, but that is not the same thing as being corrupt. To my mind, anyone who is willing to conclude that all Liberals are corrupt based on the sponsorship scandal (which, btw, resulted from the actions of people with little or no ties to the Liberals, like Jean Lafleur, who's a seperatist) is already biased against that party and is not to be taken seriously.

Anonymous- I assume you're being ironic. If so, that was brilliant.

wsam- glad to see someone appreciates a good argument!

5/7/07 5:56 PM  
Mike Jr:

I like the cut of this Érik Labelle Eastaugh's jib.

5/7/07 6:31 PM  
Ace_of _spuds:

ELE - while I agree with you that the Sponsorship scandal does not prove that all grits are evil, you dismiss too much I fear; the plan was hatched at the very top of the Liberal power structure in the PMO and violated many if not most principles of responsible government. The hidden agenda of channeling funds into the Liberal Party treasury was clearly a significant part of the plan and so tars the Liberals with corruption that all party supporters must share.

6/7/07 6:05 AM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Ace of Spuds- "The hidden agenda of channeling funds into the Liberal Party treasury was clearly a significant part of the plan "

No, it wasn't. There is no evidence for this, at least none that I have seen. If you have evidence, as opposed to prejudice, I'd be happy to see it and alter my opinions accordingly.

What you describe certainly happened (money was also funneled to the PQ, ironically) but there is nothing to suggest that that was the motivation behind the sponsorship program. What would be the point? The Liberals were hardly hard-up for cash at that point. Those who redirected the funds were not at the top of the 'Liberal power structure' (i.e. Cabinet... no need to make it sound so nefarious and conspiratorial, you're just talking about the government), they were the same individuals engaged in criminal behaviour.

6/7/07 9:59 AM  
AoS:

ELE _ I cannot resist getting the last word, from this morning's Citizen -
Justice John Gomery's letter of warning to Jean Chretien in May 2005 said an allegation of misconduct against the former prime minister was being considered in Judge Gomery's final report that would tie Mr. Chretien to untendered 1995 pre-referendum contracts, including one with Lafleur Communications for an outdoor advertising campaign in Quebec, a transcript of a private meeting reveals....

9/7/07 9:25 AM  
Érik Labelle Eastaugh:

Not so fast.

A. No such allegation was made. That Gomery was "thinking" about making one is totally irrelevant. What matters is his final decision.

B. The Gomery Commission was created by Order-in-Council with a very broad mandate. It was not empowered to make any findings of civil or criminal liability. It was not bound by the rules of civil procedure or the rules of criminal procedure. Of particular importance is Section 26 of the Rules of Procedure for the inquiry, which provided as follows:

"26. The Commission is entitled to receive evidence which might otherwise be inadmissible in a court of law."

Given that, you'll forgive me if I don't take every rumour emanating from Gomery's office as cold hard fact. You shouldn't either.

C. The fact that Chretien might have been "tied" to an "untendered" contract is in and of itself meaningless. Not all government contracts need to be tendered. Unless there is some other evidence of wrongdoing, it's a moot point. Moreover, the word "tied" is so broad as to be totally meaningless, especially in a context of civil or criminal or administrative liability. In fact, that article is (in my view) borderline libellous. Not that I'm surprised, the Citizen's anti-Liberal bias is fairly well-known.

9/7/07 10:14 PM  
Annie:

ELE: "On the EEE Senate: ... Personally, I seriously doubt whether giving PEI (Pop: 140,000) the same weight as Ontario (pop: 12.5 million) in the Senate would make our politics healthier and more effective."

I have to disagree with you here. Ontario and Quebec carry the majority of votes in the House of Commons. However, we do not live in the nation of Upper & Lower Canada. Each geographic area of our country requires representation. For instance, each and every Canadian has a responsibility to protect and preserve our territory in the far north, regardless of its population. The Senate could be a check and balance for the disproportionate representation by population in the House of Commons. I personally believe this would go a long way toward addressing the alienation of Alberta, Quebec, the Maritimes, Newfoundland, and the Northern Territories.

Andrew: your article is article is brilliant, but depressing. I believe the warring comments here support your point. We present ourselves as Albertans, or Quebecois, or Maritimers, or Ontarians, or Reformers or Liberals or Conservatives; rarely are we Canadians.

My parents told me about billboard signs from the federal government when I was a child (yes, in the Trudeau era) urging Canadians to see their own country - so we did. My parents drove us across the country (twice) in our station wagon and trailer - from Quebec to BC, up the ferry to Alaska, and home via the Yukon. We had plans to travel through the Maritimes before my father became ill. My cousins travelled to the NWT. In those days everyone was welcome - even Americans! Alberta, contrary to its current reputation, was known for its western hospitality. French Quebec was an essential part of Canadian culture. Everyone we met was proud: proud to be Canadian, and proud of where they lived, from coast to coast to coast.

I lament for the country we've lost. These days no-one I know has any sense of what it means to be a Canadian. In Ontario and B.C. we are indeed "Hotel Canada". To mix metaphors: I think the jig is up, the rot has spread too deep. I'm considering emigrating to New Zealand.

But perhaps we deserve this awful fate. Canada, despite conquest by Britain over France and the U.S., was conceived as a nation where the rights and heritage of its French and English citizens were equally enshrined in its charter, and where lands for people of the First Nations were negotiated as fair payment for the vital role they played in supporting Britain against the United States. These days Canada seems to be protecting and supporting everything but. Perhaps if we had made a point of preserving the history and culture of ALL our founding cultures, including the new provinces as they joined confederation, we wouldn't be in this mess. And this includes protection and preservation of the basic principles of our laws and government, including the education of our citizens on their civic responsibilities. Perhaps if we devoted some attention to preserving our history and heritage we would have a firmer foundation on which to govern our citizens and protect the interests of all of us.

22/7/07 11:27 PM  
Anonymous:

Having a Triple E Senate would allow healthy debate and indeed enable a fiestier form of polical scrutiny.

We need a bicameral system to enable the country to survive, not just within itself but within the competitive world.

In this system we have a majority in earned by the path of least resistence. This path taken for any lenght of time will continue
to weaken our global productiviy, which at some time will invade of standard of living.

We need the enable strong debate and tough decisions. May we also note that this a coutnry of regions, regions which are becoming stronger and will soon demadn that this country recognize the regional character of this nation in Ottawa.

And yes Saskatchewan is as important to Canda as Quebec, or Ontario.

And here in the west what we remember best from Trudeau was his one finger salute! So Annie, remember we are western Canadians, and like Chretien said we are different.

The Triple E is our only plausible hope at decent and dynamic debate to enable growth for the future, and confidnence in this nation from the west.

4/9/07 11:53 PM