Chantal, Gordon Gibson and I toss around the likelihood of a spring election, and what might trigger it. General agreement the Liberals have overplayed their hand on Kyoto.
Thanks Andrew. I stopped watching the National when it became difficult to get the "At Issue" panel online. This is perfect for me, the only CBC main channel news I can stomach.
Thank you Andrew, for someone living outside Canada this is the only way I can watch the At Issue panel, which would usually be my only reason for living on a Thursday. Please, please, please keep posting these. Thanks.
Idiocy on the part of the Bloc and NDP I have come to expect over the years, but from the LP not so much. This latest Kyoto vote says a lot about the political intellect of the current LP leadership.
To, as AC put it, "climb down" from the position that Dion has taken and not follow this vote up with a non-confidence vote - thus avoiding sure disaster in an election - will utterly destroy his and the LP's credibility as being better than the CP on the environment file.
And it speaks volumes about SD's recklessness.
One of the Liberal MPs said it would a coup d'etat if the CP didn't obey the vote. It is quite possible that SD might be facing a coup d'etat attempt within his party over this.
Thanks Andrew, I just wanted to add my name to those hoping that you'll keep posting the panel. Now i can watch South Park without flipping back and forth waiting for you guys to go on...
If anything, it's a reverse coup d'etat. I am still shocked that Milliken allowed this bill to go ahead, as clearly the measures it asks for will HAVE TO impinge on the public purse. As such, it should've been thrown out! If the opposition majority could control the government via such bills, we would instantly lose Responsible Government. Our system is that the guys in charge (in government) are responsible and accountable for all actions of the government. Throw this in, and all that is lost.
I agree with Andrew and Chantal that I think the Liberals have overplayed their hand, and I think this gives Harper the opening he was craving to go ahead and call for a dissolution himself. Before, I just couldn't see how there'd be an election, b/c I though at any one time, one of the opposition parties is not going to want an election, so there wouldn't be one, and that Harper couldn't call one in the absense of a great national question or impasse. And then up step the Liberals to provide the impasse. This is not as bad as Day standing up and declaring that a new sheriff was in town and asking for an election (which Chretien cheekily obliged him with), but it is still quite amateurish.
A Spring election is a dead on certainty now, I believe, with the call to come on April 22nd, for a May 28th election. Have to wait for the results from Quebec obviously, and then April 1st and 8th are out for calling it (April Fool's day and Easter); April 15th puts the election on the Tuesday after Victoria Day weekend, so the next option is a call on April 22nd.
Here's a question for everyone. With the passage of that bill last night, who forwards it on for Royal Assent? Isn't it the government? Couldn't they then just stop it coming into law that way? How does that work?
It's an incredible bill; I don't understand how anyone over the age of believing in magic and fairy tales could pass it.
How can you reduce emissions by 30% in five years? Without destroying the economy - a destruction unimaginable in scope, akin to a burnt out post war country.
All the CPC have to do is come up with an outline of the required absolute shut-downs, which would include every major industry in the country, destroy current cars, trucks, houses etc - is confront the Mafia Trio with this list. Ask them if they want to do this to the Canadian economy. Put them on the hook for the destruction of Canada.
Or, put them on the hook for sending billions of taxpayer dollars out to China and Russia, to build polluting plants on our dollar.
What is going on? Is it an attempt to unseat Dion?
ET: I Have to disagree with your suggestion that the CP put forward proposals for meeting Kyoto. It would essentially lower the CP to the opposition's level and give the idea that Kyoto could be met credibility. It would also give the opposition a policy it could attack and offer alternatives too.
It would be much better to ignore the vote and declare it frivolous grandstanding on the opposition's part and then dare them to put it forward as a confidence vote.
If the vote passes we will have an election and the CP can hammer them on the folly of meeting kyoto and get a majority mandate with hardly breaking a sweat.
If the vote fails then the opposition will be revealed as a bunch of posturers with no credible solutions and thus no credibility regarding the environment.
And the knives will be out for all of the leaders of those parties for having made such a blunder.
Can Parliament compel the Crown to actually do something? Prevent or allow, certainly, but compel? Does anyone know of any precedents in a Westminster democracy of this kind of thing?
ET said: All the CPC have to do is come up with an outline of the required absolute shut-downs, which would include every major industry in the country, destroy current cars, trucks, houses etc - is confront the Mafia Trio with this list. Ask them if they want to do this to the Canadian economy. Put them on the hook for the destruction of Canada
ET: Gordon had started to do that as we saw in that video. Finally the reality of this is coming to light. Pollyanna sentiments on "savin the planet" are one thing, but I find it hard to believe anyone will sign up to turn out their lights, and stop heating their homes, or pay 1.00/L extra to buy Y2Kyoto carbon credits....? Wait until the rubber really hits the road.....
"Urban snobs", like myself, prefer to believe Canadians are law-abiding global citizens, even more than pragmatic environmentalist. Canada's commitment to Kyoto is no longer about the environment; it's to reaffirm our faith. A faith that I assume (haven't checked the poles), is slight (ok, a lot more) important to the urban voter.
That's right, I said: urban VOTER. The same voter the Conservatives so desperately need for a majority, however, continue to push further away every time the PM says – we're not even going to try. What the Conservatives still have to learn, the Liberal already know; not necessarily achieving but ‘trying’ is a steadfast Canadian value.
Thanks for posting this, Andrew, please do it when you can. I never seem to be able to catch it -- I'm in the US these days, Seattle, so I get Vancouver CBC but it just never seems to work into my schedule.
At Issue, Feb 14
Keep bookmarked posts here.
14 Comments
Chantal, Gordon Gibson and I toss around the likelihood of a spring election, and what might trigger it. General agreement the Liberals have overplayed their hand on Kyoto.
Thanks Andrew. I stopped watching the National when it became difficult to get the "At Issue" panel online. This is perfect for me, the only CBC main channel news I can stomach.
Thank you Andrew, for someone living outside Canada this is the only way I can watch the At Issue panel, which would usually be my only reason for living on a Thursday. Please, please, please keep posting these. Thanks.
Idiocy on the part of the Bloc and NDP I have come to expect over the years, but from the LP not so much. This latest Kyoto vote says a lot about the political intellect of the current LP leadership.
To, as AC put it, "climb down" from the position that Dion has taken and not follow this vote up with a non-confidence vote - thus avoiding sure disaster in an election - will utterly destroy his and the LP's credibility as being better than the CP on the environment file.
And it speaks volumes about SD's recklessness.
One of the Liberal MPs said it would a coup d'etat if the CP didn't obey the vote. It is quite possible that SD might be facing a coup d'etat attempt within his party over this.
Thanks Andrew, I just wanted to add my name to those hoping that you'll keep posting the panel. Now i can watch South Park without flipping back and forth waiting for you guys to go on...
If anything, it's a reverse coup d'etat. I am still shocked that Milliken allowed this bill to go ahead, as clearly the measures it asks for will HAVE TO impinge on the public purse. As such, it should've been thrown out! If the opposition majority could control the government via such bills, we would instantly lose Responsible Government. Our system is that the guys in charge (in government) are responsible and accountable for all actions of the government. Throw this in, and all that is lost.
I agree with Andrew and Chantal that I think the Liberals have overplayed their hand, and I think this gives Harper the opening he was craving to go ahead and call for a dissolution himself. Before, I just couldn't see how there'd be an election, b/c I though at any one time, one of the opposition parties is not going to want an election, so there wouldn't be one, and that Harper couldn't call one in the absense of a great national question or impasse. And then up step the Liberals to provide the impasse. This is not as bad as Day standing up and declaring that a new sheriff was in town and asking for an election (which Chretien cheekily obliged him with), but it is still quite amateurish.
A Spring election is a dead on certainty now, I believe, with the call to come on April 22nd, for a May 28th election. Have to wait for the results from Quebec obviously, and then April 1st and 8th are out for calling it (April Fool's day and Easter); April 15th puts the election on the Tuesday after Victoria Day weekend, so the next option is a call on April 22nd.
Here's a question for everyone. With the passage of that bill last night, who forwards it on for Royal Assent? Isn't it the government? Couldn't they then just stop it coming into law that way? How does that work?
It's an incredible bill; I don't understand how anyone over the age of believing in magic and fairy tales could pass it.
How can you reduce emissions by 30% in five years? Without destroying the economy - a destruction unimaginable in scope, akin to a burnt out post war country.
All the CPC have to do is come up with an outline of the required absolute shut-downs, which would include every major industry in the country, destroy current cars, trucks, houses etc - is confront the Mafia Trio with this list. Ask them if they want to do this to the Canadian economy. Put them on the hook for the destruction of Canada.
Or, put them on the hook for sending billions of taxpayer dollars out to China and Russia, to build polluting plants on our dollar.
What is going on? Is it an attempt to unseat Dion?
If ever there was an appropriate time for a national Kyoto referendum, it is now.
We may as well have the federal election at the same time.
I always enjoy the "At Issue Panel" but don't always get to see it.
I hope you'll be able to have it on your Blog from now on.
ET: I Have to disagree with your suggestion that the CP put forward proposals for meeting Kyoto. It would essentially lower the CP to the opposition's level and give the idea that Kyoto could be met credibility. It would also give the opposition a policy it could attack and offer alternatives too.
It would be much better to ignore the vote and declare it frivolous grandstanding on the opposition's part and then dare them to put it forward as a confidence vote.
If the vote passes we will have an election and the CP can hammer them on the folly of meeting kyoto and get a majority mandate with hardly breaking a sweat.
If the vote fails then the opposition will be revealed as a bunch of posturers with no credible solutions and thus no credibility regarding the environment.
And the knives will be out for all of the leaders of those parties for having made such a blunder.
Is this bill even constitutional?
Can Parliament compel the Crown to actually do something? Prevent or allow, certainly, but compel? Does anyone know of any precedents in a Westminster democracy of this kind of thing?
ET said:
All the CPC have to do is come up with an outline of the required absolute shut-downs, which would include every major industry in the country, destroy current cars, trucks, houses etc - is confront the Mafia Trio with this list. Ask them if they want to do this to the Canadian economy. Put them on the hook for the destruction of Canada
ET: Gordon had started to do that as we saw in that video. Finally the reality of this is coming to light. Pollyanna sentiments on "savin the planet" are one thing, but I find it hard to believe anyone will sign up to turn out their lights, and stop heating their homes, or pay 1.00/L extra to buy Y2Kyoto carbon credits....? Wait until the rubber really hits the road.....
JCL
"Urban snobs", like myself, prefer to believe Canadians are law-abiding global citizens, even more than pragmatic environmentalist. Canada's commitment to Kyoto is no longer about the environment; it's to reaffirm our faith. A faith that I assume (haven't checked the poles), is slight (ok, a lot more) important to the urban voter.
That's right, I said: urban VOTER. The same voter the Conservatives so desperately need for a majority, however, continue to push further away every time the PM says – we're not even going to try. What the Conservatives still have to learn, the Liberal already know; not necessarily achieving but ‘trying’ is a steadfast Canadian value.
Thanks for posting this, Andrew, please do it when you can. I never seem to be able to catch it -- I'm in the US these days, Seattle, so I get Vancouver CBC but it just never seems to work into my schedule.